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Old 04-19-2005   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Theory of Infinity (defined)

Hi Tomrod and Clay,

I wasn't aware that I was using philosophy. I thought I was using logic. But now that I'm aware this sort of discussion is philosophy I will try to refrain from using it. O.K. sorry again. Oh and Clay I wasn't even aware that you had a news section. I guess I didn't look. Now that I've seen it I'll go have a look regularly. It looks really good.

The following though is a discussion I'm having on four different forums. It shows where I'm up to on this theory and if anyone would like to add a comment to it I would appreciate it.

Hi again FreeAction and Mike,

You have stated the funny thing I've found out about my theory (which I have posted on various forums). The fact that my experience is extremely limited was by no means unannounced (by myself). I even made up my own terms like "burnout" because I was unaware of actual terms (which I now no to be where a star exhausts it's nuclear energy - which I have just read that atoms also have this nuclear countdown - is this right? I called it a "burnout" - so sue me - generic cola).

But in the last month I have found a half-hearted attempt, to a complete lack of attempt, of people, who know better, to interpret my immature explanations. Mike was one of two who couldn't read between the lines at all, but don't worry, one forum wouldn't even lower themselves to even comment despite my repeated attempts (which I found rather strange because, from what I saw, their enjoyment with trashing the ignorant was overwhelming. My stubbourn nature would have been a prime candidate I thought). There were a few people who humored my rantings though.

All that aside, perhaps I was getting a little upset and taking things too far. My frustration can be forgiven though given the treatment, I feel at least, I recieved. There isn't an answer to everything experience I'm feeling (like that movie 'pi', have you seen it, where he looks at the sun and goes mad over the number pi). My theory I feel brings up numerous new questions, in my mind, that are even harder to explain than the answers it may or may not produce.

From what I've seen spacetime curves at a black hole. (BTW Mike I never stated that spacetime curves back on itself. In my knowledge this would produce a negative number, correct? Few would see this to be an acceptable reasoning, would they? A zero result to the question of spacetime curvature, of black holes, is equally unreasonable isn't it?)

So if I can deduce the possibilities that remain: Either spacetime curves infinitely or spacetime is curved to an amount that is so small (or large?) it almost appears infinite.

Well I guess it has to be infinity otherwise light couldn't redshift infinitely (right?).

In my professors opinion (*see note), if I could hit the singularity at v=c time would be going so slowly but it would still be a value you could calculate. Perhaps 1 second acording to *me* would be equal to 1 billion^n years at the singularity.

He thinks that beyond the EH is either nothing or it's not anything of particular importance. I gather he means it doesn't go anywhere spectaular (like a wormhole or lead to a magical path of gold).

It's not unrealistic for him to have this opinion because what the hell does infinite spacetime mean? Well this is the point I would like to study. My theory is really basically my opinion. It details my immature theoretic description of what infinite spacetime is.

I can work it out with the following reasoning:

I'm sure that matter cannot exist there (at least in the same sense we experience it). The matter is converted to energy (i think..). I've just read that gravity is not a force. Rather the 'pull', we experience by gravity if we fall down, is due to spacetime curvature. So the fact that, at the singularity, there is no matter is irrelevant (this was hard for me to understand). Matter density relates to spacetime curvature. So if you squeeze matter into a point where you have maximum possible density, a black hole, spacetime curves to infinity (or a maximum spacetime curvature).

Therefore you have infinite gravity, infinite spacetime and infinite energy (or the most energy you can have). But still no 'matter'.

Time and space, at this point, does not 'disappear', it's just that the point of refence is infinity. Anything that may, or may not, happen is relavant to infinity so relative viewpoints aren't controlled in the same way they are in this finite spacetime.

I don't know guys, which ever way I look at it, with my limited mathematical skills I keep coming up with the same answer.

What do you think?

Josephine

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Old 04-19-2005   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Theory of Infinity (defined)

Quote:
Originally Posted by liliangrn
Hi Tomrod and Clay,

I wasn't aware that I was using philosophy. I thought I was using logic. But now that I'm aware this sort of discussion is philosophy I will try to refrain from using it.
"Logic" has nothing to do with it - it is the topics you bring up, ie musings on the meaning of infinity in a non-mathematical way. It is perhaps cosmological in nature since you are talking about the universe - more than it is a physics/math discussion.

And, btw, my name is not Tomrod.


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Old 04-19-2005   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Theory of Infinity (defined)

Quote:
Originally Posted by liliangrn
I wasn't aware that I was using philosophy. I thought I was using logic.
Logic is one of the main branches of philosophy. However I don't find that you are using logic and I have doubts that you are using any other branch of philosophy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by liliangrn
Infinity is described as bad mathematics.
None of the mathematicians that I know would say that, neither would any of my friends in theoretical physics.

Actually, there are two notions of infinity in math, that I know of. One is in cardinality, the other is in limits.
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Old 04-19-2005   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Theory of Infinity (defined)

Quote:
Originally Posted by liliangrn
Hi Tomrod and Clay,

I wasn't aware that I was using philosophy. I thought I was using logic. But now that I'm aware this sort of discussion is philosophy I will try to refrain from using it. O.K. sorry again. Oh and Clay I wasn't even aware that you had a news section. I guess I didn't look. Now that I've seen it I'll go have a look regularly. It looks really good.

The following though is a discussion I'm having on four different forums. It shows where I'm up to on this theory and if anyone would like to add a comment to it I would appreciate it.......

.........From what I've seen spacetime curves at a black hole. (BTW Mike I never stated that spacetime curves back on itself. In my knowledge this would produce a negative number, correct? Few would see this to be an acceptable reasoning, would they? A zero result to the question of spacetime curvature, of black holes, is equally unreasonable isn't it?)

So if I can deduce the possibilities that remain: Either spacetime curves infinitely or spacetime is curved to an amount that is so small (or large?) it almost appears infinite.

Well I guess it has to be infinity otherwise light couldn't redshift infinitely (right?).

In my professors opinion (*see note), if I could hit the singularity at v=c time would be going so slowly but it would still be a value you could calculate. Perhaps 1 second acording to *me* would be equal to 1 billion^n years at the singularity.

He thinks that beyond the EH is either nothing or it's not anything of particular importance. I gather he means it doesn't go anywhere spectaular (like a wormhole or lead to a magical path of gold).

It's not unrealistic for him to have this opinion because what the hell does infinite spacetime mean? Well this is the point I would like to study. My theory is really basically my opinion. It details my immature theoretic description of what infinite spacetime is.

I can work it out with the following reasoning:

I'm sure that matter cannot exist there (at least in the same sense we experience it). The matter is converted to energy (i think..). I've just read that gravity is not a force. Rather the 'pull', we experience by gravity if we fall down, is due to spacetime curvature. So the fact that, at the singularity, there is no matter is irrelevant (this was hard for me to understand). Matter density relates to spacetime curvature. So if you squeeze matter into a point where you have maximum possible density, a black hole, spacetime curves to infinity (or a maximum spacetime curvature).

Therefore you have infinite gravity, infinite spacetime and infinite energy (or the most energy you can have). But still no 'matter'.

Time and space, at this point, does not 'disappear', it's just that the point of refence is infinity. Anything that may, or may not, happen is relavant to infinity so relative viewpoints aren't controlled in the same way they are in this finite spacetime.

I don't know guys, which ever way I look at it, with my limited mathematical skills I keep coming up with the same answer.

What do you think?

Josephine

It's not really MY news section, I'm just one of the most active posters there. I'm glad you've found some material there that interests you.

Just because spacetime curves at a blackhole doesn't mean that it has any effect on the universe except in the local region. Blackholes have a finite mass and some think there are limits as to how big they can get. I personally think there is just more space outside our local universe with more of the same occupying it, i.e. stars, galaxies, clusters, blackholes, etc.. I think the expansion of our local universe is driven by the event referred to as the big bang but I'm not particularly convinced as to what astronomical entity it came from. It is theorized that it was a singularity but I'm not convinced that we have correctly deduced what a singularity is or what it's properties would be.


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Old 04-19-2005   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Theory of Infinity (defined)

Hi guys,

I have recieved a lot of information based on My Theory and I need to go through it again to extract the point that I feel a relevant to this subject. It shouldn't take me long. I'll let you know, what I've come up with, as soon as I'm finished.

Josephine
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Old 04-21-2005   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Theory of Infinity (defined)

Hello I am also working on a Theory of infinity, and I was just wondering if you had more than just what you have written on your page. My friend and I are both 19 but we have sufficient evidence as done by other scientists, that our theory cannot be disproven and it solves any universal unknowns. Let me know if you have more to your theory than what is posted, I am quite interested
Thanks
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Old 04-21-2005   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Theory of Infinity (defined)

Hi Penny, (I hope I can call you Penny).

I have my discussions copied together from different forums beside this one. One of the discussions was with a proffesor who's been studying black holes for years. I'm not sure your what your theory is based so I don't know if any of it is releveant.

The following is a quote, from my professor, that is the best I have at explaining black holes:

"At the central point singularity of a black hole these are the conditions if you take the GR version as gospel

1/ The singularity is a terminal point. All motion of free falling
masses stops there.

2/ It has finite mass

3/ It has infinite density

4/ It has negative infinite gravitational potential energy, but only
finite positive mass energy derived from original kinetic energy (a
contradiction according to the basic physics involved)

5/ Spacetime is infinitely curved.

Now, as for the EH

1/ It is a coordinate singularity when viewed "from" infinite distance.
and can be penetrated in Schwarzchild/Minkowski geometry.

1a/ It is not from a closer viewpoint except to a body hitting it AT c,
but it's still penetrable.

2/ It has no mass. That's all in the middle..

3/ Having no mass it has no density. It is only an abstract surface
without physical reality.

4/ It has negative finite potential energy but it still won't match up
to the original kinetic energy that went into forming it."

I'm going to leave this theory alone until I understand physics on a greater level. I'm sure infinite space time curvature is of some importance to understanding the structure and existence of our universe and, further, what, if anything, is outside this bubble I have described. Few people are willing to even discuss it with me due to, I think, my lack of experience. I've yet to meet anyone who even agrees with me.

Have you looked into:

Cantor's Concept of Infinity: Implications of Infinity for Contingence.

I was directed here. It shows that there are actually many forms of infinity.
Beside that I'm not sure how I can help you.

G 2 G I hope you all the best.

Josephine
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Old 04-22-2005   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Theory of Infinity (defined)

Hi Penny,

You've got me rather curious as to what you are talking about. An explanation to any universal unknowns is an exceptional claim. My theory never claimed to do anything like that.

Can you give me an idea of when we can expect to hear more about it?

Josephine
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Old 04-22-2005   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Theory of Infinity (defined)

Quote:
Originally Posted by penny_pinch_her
our theory cannot be disproven and it solves any universal unknowns.
This is an outrageous claim. Please back it up with some kind of proof.

Then again, it's good joke - a theory that solves any universal unknowns. (Otherwise known as religion).


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Old 04-22-2005   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Theory of Infinity (defined)

Hey Tormod (Sorry about the miss- spelling I'm a bit dyslexic at times)

This is a question for you or anyone else:

At what exact moment can you calculate that physics will kill your imagination?
I would just like to know so I can feel it kick in.

I'm just kidding.
Seriously, though, perhaps the claim is a little overstated. Aren't you a little curious?

Well I am.
Josephine
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