When 1+1 = 1 - philosophical physics

[quantum quack]

I am not sure how to start this discussion on this observation but I'll give it a go any way....
IN essence it is a physical representation of a deeper philosophical question about oneness yet simultaneously maintaining separateness, however I put it forward as a question of physics in this post.

Basically if we take pressure or the absence of pressure as an example.
Say for example we have 2 cubic 1 meter vacuum chambers and we vacate them to say, -10 units of pressure relative to the pressure outside the chamber.
We now add these two volumes of space together and we still have -10 units of pressure.

However if we invert the scenario and make two chambers of +10 units of pressure, when we add them [the two volumes of space] together what do we have as the sum of both chambers?

My guess is we have +20 units

so in one case two volumes of vacuum equal the same value in pressure where as two volumes of pressure equals the sum of both volumes [addition]

Now if we consider that both the negative and positive volumes are essentially the same volume [ and pressure ] and only seen from different perspectives we have a seemingly paradoxical result.

When looking at it from an ambient pressure perspective we have 1+1=1 and when looking at it from an ambient vacuum, perspective we have 1+1=2.

Thus this can be logically exteded to mean philosophically 0+0 = 0 but also 0+0 = 1 simultaneously.

Does this make any sense at all?

[EWright]

Originally Posted by quantum quack

I am not sure how to start this discussion on this observation but I'll give it a go any way....
IN essence it is a physical representation of a deeper philosophical question about oneness yet simultaneously maintaining separateness, however I put it forward as a question of physics in this post.

Basically if we take pressure or the absence of pressure as an example.
Say for example we have 2 cubic 1 meter vacuum chambers and we vacate them to say, -10 units of pressure relative to the pressure outside the chamber.
We now add these two volumes of space together and we still have -10 units of pressure.

However if we invert the scenario and make two chambers of +10 units of pressure, when we add them [the two volumes of space] together what do we have as the sum of both chambers?

My guess is we have +20 units

so in one case two volumes of vacuum equal the same value in pressure where as two volumes of pressure equals the sum of both volumes [addition]

Now if we consider that both the negative and positive volumes are essentially the same volume [ and pressure ] and only seen from different perspectives we have a seemingly paradoxical result.

When looking at it from a pressure perspective we have 1+1=1 and when looking at it from a vacuum, perspective we have 1+1=2.

Thus this can be logically exteded to mean philosophically 0+0 = 0 but also 0+0 = 1 simultaneously.

Does this make any sense at all?

This is not an area I have ever focused on or taken interest in, but logically ti seems to me that you are mistaken. Try looking at it as a ratio/proportion issue. In both cases your ratio remins 1:1. When you are adding the positive relationships together, your adding the same amount of volume as you are pressure, so the ratio remains the same per unit of measurement.

[quantum quack]

Originally Posted by EWright

This is not an area I have ever focused on or taken interest in, but logically ti seems to me that you are mistaken. Try looking at it as a ratio/proportion issue. In both cases your ratio remins 1:1. When you are adding the positive relationships together, your adding the same amount of volume as you are pressure, so the ratio remains the same per unit of measurement.

let me try another approach.....

If I take a container of 10 psi and squeeze that volume into a similar container with 10 psi I have a result of 20 psi....yes? Can we agree with this? [the way a pump functions]

If I take a container with -10 psi and squeeze that volume into a similar contaiiner with -10 psi I would expect a result of only -10 psi...would this be correct? Can we agree with this?

btw thanks for your response

[quantum quack]

just to add
say we use the following
where
v = volume of vacuum
and
p = volume of pressure

1v + 1v = 1v
1p + 1p = 2p

Where pressure is a relative concept

[EWright]

Originally Posted by quantum quack

let me try another approach.....

If I take a container of 10 psi and squeeze that volume into a similar container with 10 psi I have a result of 20 psi....yes? Can we agree with this? [the way a pump functions]

If I take a container with -10 psi and squeeze that volume into a similar contaiiner with -10 psi I would expect a result of only -10 psi...would this be correct? Can we agree with this?

btw thanks for your response

No, you would have -20psi in the container smaller container. Consider two glasses upside down in a container of water with an inch of air caught in each one. If you release the air from one glass into the other you will now have two inches of air (negative pressure in this case) in the second glass. It remains negatively proportional to its positive counterpart.

[EWright]

Originally Posted by quantum quack

just to add
say we use the following
where
v = volume of vacuum
and
p = volume of pressure

1v + 1v = 1v
1p + 1p = 2p

Where pressure is a relative concept

You will then have two units of pressure (be it negative or positive) in one unit of volume. You actually have 2v - 1v = 1v and 1p + 1p = 2p. Holy cow, I think I actually just spoke physics!

[quantum quack]

Originally Posted by EWright

You will then have two units of pressure (be it negative or positive) in one unit of volume. You actually have 2v - 1v = 1v and 1p + 1p = 2p. Holy cow, I think I actually just spoke physics!

it is true if you are talkking about the number of volumes. But we are talking about the value of pressure when combining volumes.....i think

[EWright]

Originally Posted by quantum quack

it is true if you are talkking about the number of volumes. But we are talking about the value of pressure when combining volumes.....i think

I thought so too.

I think I'm still correct though. The pressure volumes would be combined either negatively or positively, no?

[quantum quack]

Originally Posted by EWright

I thought so too.

I think I'm still correct though. The pressure volumes would be combined either negatively or positively, no?

I guess it comes down to teh basic question of what happens if you add
-10 units of pressure to -10 units of pressure?

does it equal -20 units or -10 units?

keeping in mind that adding a volume of vacuum does not increase the vacuum unless the negative pressure is greater [lesser] than the original pressure.....hmmmmm
this is my premise
10 v + 13v = 13v
it would only take 13 v to combine the two volumes

however 10 p + 13p = 23p
it would tke 23 p to combine the two volumes

[EWright]

Originally Posted by quantum quack

I guess it comes down to teh basic question of what happens if you add
-10 units of pressure to -10 units of pressure?

does it equal -20 units or -10 units?

keeping in mind that adding a volume of vacuum does not increase the vacuum unless the negative pressure is greater [lesser] than the original pressure.....hmmmmm
this is my premise
10 v + 13v = 13v
it would only take 13 v to combine the two volumes

however 10 p + 13p = 23p
it would tke 23 p to combine the two volumes

Going back to my upside down glasses of water scenario, you do get increased negative pressure, which is doubled relative to what it was and the corresponding equal amount of positive pressure is displaced by the new negative pressure. Right?