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03-20-2006
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#1 (permalink)
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Questioning
Location: in cardboard box
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atoms and heat
has anybody ever noticed the relationship between boiling/ melting etc..
and the atomic weight of an atom. that roughly the higher the atomic mass the higher the boilig point.
good this be a penguin effect where the more nnuetrons and protons there are the higher the melting point is.
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03-20-2006
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#2 (permalink)
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Resident Slayer
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Re: atoms and heat
Few elements exist for long as lone atoms and form into molecules (even if its a "pure" combination, like C4 or H2). Only the Noble Gases just sit there. As a result, boiling/freezing points end up having more to do with the *configuration* of the *molecules* that get formed, than the underlying atomic weights. Although you will see correlations, there are probably more exceptions...
Plays a Chemist on Hypography,
Buffy
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"If you do not agree with anything I say, I'll not only retract it, but deny under oath that I ever said it!"
__________________________________________________ ______________-- Tom Lehrer
"No Robbie, not Europe!"
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Hypography Science Forums - Science for Boys and Girls! Its not for nothing that we hang out here.
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03-20-2006
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#3 (permalink)
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Ancora Imparo
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Re: atoms and heat
well without the few exceptions the general trend happens because of electrostatic forces between the atoms - the bigger they are the more charge they carry and the better they can 'hold' onto the other atoms nearby. This means more energy (heat) is needed to break the bolds and either melt or boil it.
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03-21-2006
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#4 (permalink)
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Exhausted Gondolier
Location: Floating On An Ocean Of Hydrogen
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Re: atoms and heat
Hmmm, it isn't really so simple, the forces aren't proportional to Z, and Buffy many atoms including the metals don't form *molecules*. Even NaCl fr'instance isn't really a molecule.
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Originally Posted by anglepose
roughly the higher the atomic mass the higher the boilig point.
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I don't think iron (Z=26) melts more easily than copper (Z=29) or zinc (Z=30), even less compared with tin (Z=50) lead (Z=82). What about... mercury? (Z=80)
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Inutil insegnŕ al mus, si piart timp, in plui si infastiděs la bestie.
Hypography Forum PITA...... er, Administrator. 
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03-21-2006
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#5 (permalink)
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Resident Slayer
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Re: atoms and heat
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Originally Posted by Qfwfq
Hmmm, it isn't really so simple, the forces aren't proportional to Z, and Buffy many atoms including the metals don't form *molecules*. Even NaCl fr'instance isn't really a molecule.
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Yah, that's what I meant. Man, NaCl and other lattices do all sortsa weird things. Do you know what the melting point of a Buckyball is?  The point is even if you limit yourself to molecules, you're going to have more exceptions than rules to the gross correllation that is sorta-kinda there, so what we're all saying angelpose, is that your proposition is really not true, nor is it tremendously valuable....its kinda like saying "lots of plants are green": its sorta true, but there are so many exceptions that its not really a useful statement.
Is it getting hot in here?
Buffy
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"If you do not agree with anything I say, I'll not only retract it, but deny under oath that I ever said it!"
__________________________________________________ ______________-- Tom Lehrer
"No Robbie, not Europe!"
Forum Administrator
Hypography Science Forums - Science for Boys and Girls! Its not for nothing that we hang out here.
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03-21-2006
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#6 (permalink)
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Exhausted Gondolier
Location: Floating On An Ocean Of Hydrogen
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Re: atoms and heat
Sheesh, Buffy, what time is it in Sunnydale?
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Originally Posted by Buffy
Yah, that's what I meant.
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That wasn't so obvious! 
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Inutil insegnŕ al mus, si piart timp, in plui si infastiděs la bestie.
Hypography Forum PITA...... er, Administrator. 
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03-21-2006
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#7 (permalink)
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Politically Incorrect

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Re: atoms and heat
the Melting Point for Boron is K2300
Don't be a Moron about Boron,
Racoon

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There is Truth in Wine and Children
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03-21-2006
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#8 (permalink)
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Resident Slayer
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Re: atoms and heat
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Originally Posted by Qfwfq
Sheesh, Buffy, what time is it in Sunnydale? 
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Sleep? What's that?
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Originally Posted by Qfwfq
That wasn't so obvious! 
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Well, simplification was the goal, I kinda assumed if I phrased the sentance "Few elements exist for long as lone atoms and form into molecules or lattices or tubes or ..." that I would have lost the introductory-level audience... Over-simplification has its place...
Pedagogically,
Buffy
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"If you do not agree with anything I say, I'll not only retract it, but deny under oath that I ever said it!"
__________________________________________________ ______________-- Tom Lehrer
"No Robbie, not Europe!"
Forum Administrator
Hypography Science Forums - Science for Boys and Girls! Its not for nothing that we hang out here.
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03-21-2006
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#9 (permalink)
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Explaining
Location: Kelowna, BC, Canada
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Re: atoms and heat
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Originally Posted by Buffy
Sleep? What's that?
Well, simplification was the goal, I kinda assumed if I phrased the sentance "Few elements exist for long as lone atoms and form into molecules or lattices or tubes or ..." that I would have lost the introductory-level audience... Over-simplification has its place...
Pedagogically,
Buffy
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And the "introductory-level audience... " thanks you 
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Thank goodness science is based on "survival of the fittest" rather than being a Democracy!
Buffy
Evolution is a hoot if you are one of the survivors.
UncleAl
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03-22-2006
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#10 (permalink)
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Exhausted Gondolier
Location: Floating On An Ocean Of Hydrogen
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Re: atoms and heat
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Originally Posted by Buffy
I kinda assumed if I phrased the sentance "Few elements exist for long as lone atoms and form into molecules or lattices or tubes or ..."
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Howzabouts: "Most atoms get really tied up in tight knots with each other."
Oversimplistically,
Qfwfq.
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Inutil insegnŕ al mus, si piart timp, in plui si infastiděs la bestie.
Hypography Forum PITA...... er, Administrator. 
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