[FrankM]

In 1880, Piere and Jacques Curie identified quartz as a piezoelectric material. It took awhile longer to
identify the mechanism that made it piezoelectric and now many materials other than quartz are
manufactured with this characteristic.

One of the characteristics of piezoelectric materials is that they do not create an electrical output until
there is a change in pressure. The characteristics of the output, polarity and shape, will depend upon
the rapidity of the pressure change and whether it is an increased or decreased pressure. Some
materials are naturally piezoelectric, which means that the polar axis within the crystal are aligned
in the same direction. Artificially created piezoelectric materials get that way by the application of
heat and an electric field to align the polar axes in the same direction. The polarity of the electric field
determines the orientation of the alignment. All forms of rock are fine combinations of crystalline
material, and at depth rocks are subject to high pressures and heat. Figure 3 of the following article
denotes possible polar axis orientations.

Piezo

For some time, earthquakes and piezoelectrics have been associated, and it is generally postulated the
effect was associated with quartz-bearing rock. Earthquake lights are often cited as evidence of the
piezoelectric output, but little is known on how the electric charge associated with an earthquake moves
in the earth and what determines its polarity.

The big 1960 Chilean and 1964 Alaska earthquakes produced observable effects in the ionosphere and
serious studies have been underway to identify the mechanism.

NASA
Charge Carriers

The primary focus of these articles is the "dormant charge" and piezoelectricity was not mentioned.
The articles suggest that rock subjected to extreme stress suddenly behaves as a semiconductor.

Tthe 1964 Alaska earthquake created a large positive charge above the earthquake area. If we
postulate that the subsurface rock crystals were aligned as in the Figure 3(a), of the Piezo.pdf article,
and the earthquake created a decrease in pressure (stretching), the electrical output would be as
that exhibited in Figure 3(c), positive toward the surface.

Is it reasonable to postulate that the "electrical output" of an earthquake could be dependent upon
whether or not it occurred in an area (depth) where the polar axes are strongly aligned, and of course,
the magnitude of the pressure change. How far the generated charge propagates before it goes to zero is
another issue.

Links corrected, the "L" process inserted another http in front of the referenced http string and I didn't
see it.

[Uncle Martin]

An excellent subject frank, very educational. The links don't work for me, I'd like to pursue this topic more in depth, could you please check that they are correct?

[Tormod]

Frank, you should put together a couple of hypographies on your subject for us. You have a lot of insight into this matter which could be very interesting to share with our non-forum users, too.

Anyway, thanks for your post. Most enlightening.

[Freethinker]

Yes very interesting. Is there any potential for utilizing this energy source for power consumption? Google shows a Piezoelectric effect for fault lines/ earthquakes. And using these effects for predicting them. What about using such energy sources for generating usable power? Would seem polution free.

[FrankM]

Some of the most interesting information about earthquakes and their manifestations are coming from
individuals that have academic disciplines outside of the geologists that have traditionally researched this
phenomena.

Changing the mindset of an academic discipline seemingly takes decades as the tenured professors
have the capability to squelch changes they refuse to accept. Who would have thought some 40 years
ago that an earthquake could have a significant effect on anything well above the earths' surface, other
than raising a bit of dust.

Precursors to the 1960 Chilean and 1964 Alaska earthquakes were detected by radio operators. A number
of radio services also noted the loss of signals that required ionospheric "skip" during the earthquakes
themselves. They did not know at the time an earthquake had occurred, but when the time and duration
of the "main event" was correlated with the time of the signal losses the association was obvious.
Although the pre-quake "emanations" created an unusual signature in the ionosphere, I cannot find
any references that this phenomena is being actively researched.

Strange animal behavior before earthquakes and the so-called earthquake lights seen in
conjunction with earthquakes was relegated to the pseudo-sciences (they were not observed using
scientifically trained observers nor were rigorous scientific methods utilized) and were not seriously
investigated by the academics who made their livings in the geologic sciences.

You can spend weeks going through the information about earthquakes that is in the Hypographies
posted by Tormond in Sept. 2001,
Earthquakes
One of the best summaries is the one titled, "Earthquake Prediction ",
Prediction
"One well-known successful earthquake prediction was for the Haicheng, China earthquake of 1975, ..."

Notice they used animal behavior as one of the precusors. One could write a thesis on animal behavior
before an earthquake, but I would recommend it be done by an someone in the Agricultural Sciences,
specifically Dairy Science. Students of Dairy Science know that cows react adversely to stray electrical
currents, refusing to drop their milk and doing strange prancing in the milking parlor or associated pasture
areas if a "stray potential" exists. The NASA report linked in a previous post indicates that the moving
electrical charges will hit the surface. "When charges flow, they constitute an electric current." I will
guarantee that electric current flow at the surface will have measureable potential differences over a
span of a couple feet or even less. Dairy farmers don't walk around in their bare feet, but the cows
sure do, as do all animals. I have read interesting reports on electrical problems at dairies and how the
cows reacted.

There are rational explanations for all anomalous events, and all it takes in many cases to identify the
causative characteristics is having the research performed by an individual with a multidisciplinary
education, or one that is not adverse to working with individuals with expertise in other scientific
disciplines, things they do not understand. Putting it all together is the real challenge.

[FrankM]

Actually I gave the Ag scientists too much credit beyond their expertise. They may be good as spotting
anomalous animal behavior but they do not know exactly what level of electrical current a particular
animal is sensitive too, you would have thought that someone would have done that. For a standing animal
just what is the most sensitive path? You can do a lot of testing in controlled conditions. You can measure
the animals leg to leg conductivity separately but you have to apply a known potential to determine an
animals sensitivity. Tsk, tsk, animal testing. Until you know what animals are sensitive to you will not
know how to construct an artificial sensor.

At dairies you know you are dealing with a 60 cycle AC (alternating current) potential (50 cycles in some
countries), but earthquake generated currents do not have predictable periodicities. You would think it
would be simple to detect if there were stray ground currents, especially if you know they are from a
known AC source, but the stray ground currents at a dairy are spread out. Earthquake generated
charges spread out over kilometer areas, and you don't know the rise time of the charge, or whether it
consists of just one big moving charge, or if it's stepped, or if it's symmetrical, or its latency, etc.

I began examining the nature of in-ground electric charges in an attempt to understand the characteristics
of the electric potential and currents in underground cavities. Everyone that hikes through mountains
is warned never to seek shelter in shallow caves and mines when there is a nearby thunderstorm. I
actively sought answers from academic sources in earth sciences and mining with the following question,
"What are the measured potentials and currents in different types of caves and mines (depth, size and
shape), in ambient conditions versus during thunderstorms?" I also wanted to know if they measured
wall to wall along with floor to ceiling potentials and currents.

The answer, it hasn't been measured.

[FrankM]

The following quotes are from my post of 08/11/2004 01:01 PM

Although the pre-quake "emanations" created an unusual signature in the ionosphere, I cannot find
any references that this phenomena is being actively researched.

I need to correct that statement and say it is being actively researched.

Liu, J. Y., Y. J. Chuo, S. J. Shan, Y. B. Tsai, Y. I. Chen, S. A. Pulinets and S. B. Yu (2004). Pre-earthquake
ionospheric anomalies. Annales Geophysicae 22: 1585 - 1593.

Pulinets, S. A., A. D. Legen'ka, T. V. Gaivoronskaya and V. K. Depuev (2003). Main phenomenological
features of ionospheric precursors of strong earthquakes.
J. Atmospheric and Solar-Terrestrial Physics 65: pp 1337-1347.

Strange animal behavior before earthquakes and the so-called earthquake lights seen in conjunction
with earthquakes was relegated to the pseudo-sciences (they were not observed using scientifically
trained observers nor were rigorous scientific methods utilized) and were not seriously investigated
by the academics who made their livings in the geologic sciences.

Tributsch, H. (1983). When Snakes Awake: Animals and Earthquake Prediction. Cambridge, MA, MIT Press.
Helmut Tributsch is Professor of Physical Chemistry at the Free University of Berlin
Animals
He is not a geologist. The original was in German and is out of print. Another interesting book by the
professor is mentioned here: http://www.innovationwatch.com/books/bks_0262200457.htm

[IrishEyes]

FrankM, your thread is informative and impressive. Thanks for the research, and for presenting it in such a readable manner.

My favorite line from this thread so far: 08/11/2004 07:01 PM - "Putting it all together is the real challenge."

I could not agree more! This is perhaps one of the hardest things to do in any situation - completing the puzzle. Having all of the pieces and trying to figure out how they fit is one of my favorite past times. Of course, not knowing if you have all of the pieces makes it exponentially harder. And finding out halfway through that you've got someone else's puzzle mixed in with yours is just downright frustrating.

Not really sure where I was going with this thought, but had to tell you that I thoroughly enjoyed the read!

[FrankM]

Well, piezoelectric action may NOT be the big player in earthquake precursors. It appears I may
have presented an erroneous postulate. From my original post,

Is it reasonable to postulate that the "electrical output" of an earthquake could be dependent upon
whether or not it occurred in an area (depth) where the polar axes are strongly aligned, and of course,
the magnitude of the pressure change.

Piezoelectric action may be present but it might be the lesser of the actions. The article below is dated August 2001.
Freund
"They (positive holes) can cross grain boundaries nearly unimpeded. Therefore, they can carry currents
through otherwise insulating rocks." There are enough other revelations in the report to give us pause to
think just how much we do not know about the characteristics of many materials.

A report to be released in September 2004 describes laboratory tests wherein a Calif. quartz bearing
granite and quartz-free lower crustal anorthosite from Larvik, Norway were subjected to very high
pressure. It essentially confirms that rock turns into a semi-conductor when subjected to extreme stress.
The report also indicates the current generated during the 1999 Chi-Chi earthquake could range from
10^6 to 10^8 amperes, that is a lot of amps.

Hopefully, I will get an official posting address soon after it is officially released. I received the information
after I made my postulate, thus asking or proposing something based upon erroneous assumptions can
get one better informed.

[alexander]

Hey, I've been out of it for a little while, but plan to return to the forum pretty soon, just dont have any time.
FrankM said:

Strange animal behavior before earthquakes and the so-called earthquake lights seen in conjunction
with earthquakes was relegated to the pseudo-sciences (they were not observed using scientifically
trained observers nor were rigorous scientific methods utilized) and were not seriously investigated
by the academics who made their livings in the geologic sciences.

You know, its strange... I was watching this program yesterday on the science channel about the Oracle of the Delphi, and they said that perhaps the most probbable reason why the Oracle's power declined was an earthquake. Anyways to the point, although the change in animal behavior was never scientiffically investigated, there have been numerous occasions where it has been documented throughout the history of earthquakes (like the one that happenned in Greece before the fall of the oracle). Numerous scources told a story of all rats and snakes leaving the town of Delphi, dogs going crazy and biting through the ropes only to never be seen again, lights in the sky, and sounds of wind in the middle of the knight without a breeze. Researchers couldnt explain the fenomena and thus didnt believe that it happened. It wasnt untill recently that they could explain it. The earthquake shook up greece once again recently, and once again there were rats running across the road, dogs and cats going crazy, lights in the sky and sound in the standstill air...

Sorry guys i have to run, ill try to continue this when i come back today, hopefully...