Force between two atoms

[Little Bang]

Suppose we had a universe that contained only two atoms of hydrogen, separated by a few meters. Would there be a force between them that would cause them to come together and form diatomic hydrogen?

[Jay-qu]

Gravity would bring them together, but I dont think it would provide enough energy for the bonding to occur.

Gravitational potential energy


sorry just wanted to use some latex

subbing in for G, mass of Hydrogen and r = 2;



Jules

I beleive this is that max energy of the system, further analysis is been taken

[Little Bang]

Old Albert thought that there might be a relationship between electromagnetism and gravity and I wonder if his obsession with disproving the findings of quantum mechanics might have interfered with him actually seeing that relationship. If you look at the universe that I imagined, the proton of one atom would be attracted to the electron of the other atom and vice versa. The two protons would repel each other and the two electrons would do the same. I’ll call the two protons A and B. When the wave function of electron A is on the near side of B and the wave function of electron B is on the far side of B there is a force of attraction between them. There might be a specific distance of separation where the forces of repulsion and attraction exactly balance. It sure would simplify things if someone could find a relationship between gravity and electromagnetism.

[Jay-qu]

well, at distances of around 2m the difference between the repulsion force between the two protons, two electons and the attraction between opposite protons and electrons will be approximatly balanced, only when they get closer will the slight difference in these forces become noticeable. What I am trying to work out is the distance at which this will occur. I am having trouble thinking out where you must consider the electon to be.. do you smear it out because its moving so fast around the nucleus?

[Qfwfq]

Originally Posted by Jay-qu

do you smear it out because its moving so fast around the nucleus?

Definitely yes.

Calculations based on the charge distribution according to probability density, for a known state, give excellent results.

[Jay-qu]

cool, does this equate to having a -e charge at the center of the atom?

[Qfwfq]

If the distribution is spherically symmetric, yes for the field outside it. This isn't usually the case and the net force between two overall neutral atoms is typically repulsive at short distances and slightly attractive at those a little more than a certain value, after which it drops rapidly toward zero. Details can be found in books on the structure of materials.

Originally Posted by Jay-qu

-e

I forgot the - sign! I was talkin' about an anti-atom!

[hallenrm]

Originally Posted by Little Bang

Suppose we had a universe that contained only two atoms of hydrogen, separated by a few meters. Would there be a force between them that would cause them to come together and form diatomic hydrogen?

I think that the possibility of the two atoms coming together to for a molecule will depend pn the energy with which they come close to one another. Once they are in rather close proximity, of the order of a few atomic radii, the probability of their forming a molecule will depend on the probability of the electrons to be on the opposite sides of the two atoms so that the coulombic attraction between the positive charge (on the protons) and the negative charge on the electron is the dominant force.

[Little Bang]

Hall, whether or not the two hydroen atoms unit is really incidental, I don't know why I even put that in the thread. I just think that there will always be an electromagnetic force between atoms and that force might be related in some way to what we describe as gravity. We can explain the workings of gravity extremely accurately but we have not been able to show how it works.

[hallenrm]

Dear Little Bang, I was reading this article in the New Scientist magazine, it appears that the author of this article is saying somewhat similar thoughts.

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/...mg19225771.800