TIME EXPLAINED (v2.1)

[hardkraft]

I know Popular is getting edgy because we are getting too much off his topic but I thought that since we are dicussing time and it only being in our heads it's important to ask why and how it is in our heads. Only special kinds of physics will allow life and only special kinds of physics will allow memories, our time detectors. It's interesting to ponder which physics is responsible for what. Thinking about that made me realize how assimetrical laws are. Changing gravity to antigravity will not make a world where things simply fly up, it would make a world that is completly different from ours, where life and memories are probably not possible.
As to the direction in which the proteins are twisted, it's an interesting idea and I am sure they limit us in some ways but I think larger structures than that are responsible for our thought precesess. Turtle, did they say what happens if you eat a right handed protein? Do you get mad cow desise?

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Buffy

My goodness! What, pray tell, do handedness of proteins have to do with time?

Exactly what I want to know!

Originally Posted by Buffy

We can build organisms with such proteins, are you saying such beasties go backwards in time?

I am not saying that, no.

Originally Posted by Buffy

Always buttering the bottom of the toast,
Buffy

The better to eat it while standing on my head.

Originally Posted by hardcraft

Turtle, did they say what happens if you eat a right handed protein? Do you get mad cow desise?

No; they only mentioned it in relation to finding right-handed proteins in meteorites. Since living organisms are built of only (virtually only?) right-handed proteins then that is indicative of building blocks of life at large in the Universe.

Having written it that way now, I have confused myself about whether they said only life 'makes' right-handed proteins, or that it only 'uses' them? I have fallen, and can't get up! Little help here?

[Turtle]

Proteins, handedness, and time? :
Calorimetric test of General Relativity

[infamous]

Thinking about time on the grand scale, say from the view point of a photon created at the Big Bang itself, no time has passed what-so-ever. Incredible as that may sound, if you could have hitched a ride on one of those first photons created at the Big Bang, you would have experienced no passage of time since you first left. This would ofcourse be true because you would have been traveling at the speed of light and we all know that traveling at this speed eliminates the passage of time. At least that's what I've been lead to believe as a result of the phenomonon called time dilation.

Let's assume for an instant that a photon created at the Big Bang lasts until the theoretical heat death of the universe. I realize that this theory has it's short comings, but nevertheless, let's assume this thought experiment just for the sake of argument. One could surmise that, at least from the perspective of this photon, no time would have passed between it's creation and the end of the universe.

This raises an unusual question. From the view point of this photon, is the past, the present, and the future are all rolled into one? In fact, I quess one could say that for this photon, the future has already been determined and processed. That sure destroys the concept of randomness in my humble opinion..............In any case, the concept of time most certainly is a very relative thing; To speak in Einsteinian slang...........................Infy

[Leo]

Time dilation effectively begs more questioning about what we call time, Infamous. When saying a photon experiences no time or all times at once, what do we mean? Does time pass for a wave on the ocean? What is a wave? A perturbation that advances. The water changes, but the wave does not change. The very concept of time does not apply to the wave. It applies to the water. The photon experiences nothing. The universe experiences the photon. Matter is a different beast. It evolves at different rates, but the fundamental forces that cause its evolution keep working at maximum speed.

Regarding protein handedness, it's a bit like why we have much more electrons than positrons in our corner of the universe. We really don't know for sure but the safest assumption is that it's random distribution. A slight imbalance at the start of an ecosystem, and we go one way rather than the other. There might be planets where living beings work on the other proteins. And galaxies born of anti-hydrogen clouds.

[arkain101]

I know Popular is getting edgy because we are getting too much off his topic but I thought that since we are dicussing time and it only being in our heads it's important to ask why and how it is in our heads.

The best thing I can say is that it is not time that is in our heads, but the direction of the flow of time is in our heads.

Change happens, often we say that is time, but it is not as accurate as to say there is only two options for time.

It's either frozen, forward, or reverse in the dimension our mind makes sense of it.

You know our old saying:

"You cant change the past"

Well; There is only 1 way to experience change, and that is if data as in light travels towards your frame. This creates change and although it seems to be forward in our way of thinking, there is also time/change going the other direction.

Yon cant change the past, is as true as to say you can not see, or change the light that has left your frame.

So there is always time flowing negetively from your position to distant frames, and distant frames past's that reach you are forming an observable future.

This is occuring all the time in all directions, however there is only two options,
1)events of time that are gaining distance from you.
2)events removing distance between you.

You can never experience events that create distance from you, it is an observable past.

So for the universe time flows in sparatic directions all the time, But our mind is so used to considering time to be one directional linear, but this here is the point that is in our heads.

If you hold a clock in front of you for 1 minute, there is a view of the clock view 1 min ago @ 1 light minute distance behind you. The clocks past measurement is skimming along experiencing no time, untill eventually hitting something and forming another observers "mental future'.

[arkain101]

Assume that an object is moving away from an observer.

(observer rest)-------------->o (object)

The object fires a blast of light at a given moment (n)

For simplicity purposes we will say the object moves the same speed as the light happens to move.

It fires a second blast of light when the first blast reaches the observer (we view this in the manner of a 3rd hypothetical observer.

Each moment a previous blast of light reaches the observer the object releases another blast. (yes, It just so happens that the timing works out that way from our observation.)

we see this.
< is light blast
| is position blast shows
o is actual material object.
First blast:
(observer rest)--------------o
(observer rest)-------------<|-o
(observer rest)------------<-|--o
(observer rest)-----------<--|---o
(observer rest)----------<---|----o
(observer rest)---------<----|-----o
(observer rest)--------<-----|------o
(observer rest)-------<------|-------o
(observer rest)------<-------|--------o
(observer rest)-----<--------|---------o
(observer rest)----<---------|----------o
(observer rest)---<----------|-----------o
(observer rest)--<-----------|------------o
(observer rest)-<------------|-------------o
(observer rest)<-------------|--------------o

Second blast:

(observer rest)<-------------|--------------o
(observer rest)<-------------|-------------<|o
(observer rest)<-------------|------------<-|-o
(observer rest)<-------------|-----------<--|--o
(observer rest)<-------------|----------<---|---o
(observer rest)<-------------|---------<----|----o
(observer rest)<-------------|--------<-----|-----o
(observer rest)<-------------|-------<------|------o
(observer rest)<-------------|------<-------|-------o
(observer rest)<-------------|-----<--------|--------o
(observer rest)<-------------|----<---------|---------o
(observer rest)<-------------|---<----------|----------o
(observer rest)<-------------|--<-----------|-----------o
(observer rest)<-------------|-<------------|------------o
(observer rest)<-------------|<-------------|-------------o
(observer rest)<-------------<--------------|--------------o
(observer rest)<-----------<|---------------|---------------o
etc...untill
(observer rest)<-------------|--------------|----------------------------<|o



As such we see n=0,1,2,3,4,5...

(observer rest)<-------------|"0"---------------|"1"-----------------------------|"2"---------------------------------------------|"3"------------------------------------------------------------|"4"---------------------------------------------------------------------------|"5"

We can do this for each wave front of light to show that when it meets and reports to the observer, the object or source of that wave front has moved just as far. (the object is going same velocity as the photons)

[Dov Henis]

I posted elsewher in this forum my thinking about replacing E=mC^2 for the universe with E = m(1+D), the relationship between cosmic E,m and D(distance of space expansion since big-bang). I dispense with time (component of C^2) because I consider that m is affected by E and D but not by time, and that time just happens to be a term proportional to D, as time is proportional to distance in every dituation in which distance changes, in which there is motion, at a "mathematically expressable regular" rate.

I could'nt have dispensed with time in a situation of "irregular" motion, where time and distance are not continuously proportional. Time and motion need both be there when each of these two factors effects its own distinct contribution to the result.

Dov

[infamous]

Originally Posted by Leo

Time dilation effectively begs more questioning about what we call time, Infamous. When saying a photon experiences no time or all times at once, what do we mean?

Simply put, if a photon had eyes, they wouldn't have time to blink.

Originally Posted by Leo;

The photon experiences nothing. The universe experiences the photon.

I wouldn't go so far as to say the photon experiences nothing, the fact remains it exists and therefore experiences that existence. For those interested, here's a wild thought for you to chew on; Because the photon experiences it's existence in the proverbial flash, maybe the passage of events we refer to as time are only the memory of this flash played back to our consciousness in slow motion? Maybe all events have already happened and we are just watching a re-run?

I've offered this different view of reality as a thought experiment only and understand it borders more on Philosophy than Physics. It is true that if we are to explain time, this approach will provide no scientific evidence. I offer it only as a method to provoke deeper thought into the difficult adventure we are undertaking.

Because time is such a variable thing, I doubt the reality of any substance associated with the notion of time as a thing. For me, time only refers to a procession of events and is as varied as the difference between the speed of light and the pace of a snail. We humans assign a value to it and the value is an arbitary construct that only suits our particular invention.

Time is our way of explaning the division of preceived events within our brain...............................Infy

[hardkraft]

The photon does not experience anything because it's not a scentient being. I know it's just a thought experiment but it's better to have experiments that are closer to reality. Let's imagine a rocket traveling at relativistic speeds. Let's say it travels for billions of years. Although the time doesn't completely stop for it, it slows down significantly enough that the image of the universe inside the rocket differs significantly from the outside world. What happens when it smacks into a planet that had time to evolve in the meantime? Does all the reality catch up in an instant or fast forward to the present? I can see that it's a version of the twin paradox. Popular, what does your theory say about it?