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01-20-2007
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#1 (permalink)
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Creating

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Re: "You can't please all of the people", shareholders, officers, and regulators.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigD
Officers of publicly owned companies are under pressure to produce short term profits at the expense of long-term prudence and safety - many investors don’t care if a company goes down in litigious ruin, so long as they buy in early and cash out before the crash, realizing a good ROI, and they are among those who vote in the boards that hire and fire the officers.
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You have a chilling way of stating the obvious
That is Why we need A Corpoate Statement of Ethics
At the moment ethical standards among Corporations is at an all time low. 
Their leaders/managers are not responsible to the electorate as a whole. Just to shareholders -often/mostly? other corporations.
EG such a statement might include
Quote:
Article 4
All people, endowed with reason and conscience, must accept a responsibility to each and all, to families and communities, to races, nations, and religions in a spirit of solidarity: What you do not wish to be done to yourself, do not do to others.
Article 7
Every person is infinitely precious and must be protected unconditionally. The animals and the natural environment also demand protection. All people have a responsibility to protect the air, water and soil of the earth for the sake of present inhabitants and future generations.
Justice and Solidarity
Article 8
Every person has a responsibility to behave with integrity, honesty and fairness. No person or group should rob or arbitrarily deprive any other person or group of their property.
Article 11
All property and wealth must be used responsibly in accordance with justice and for the advancement of the human race. Economic and political power must not be handled as an instrument of domination, but in the service of economic justice and of the social order.
Truthfulness and Tolerance
Article 12
Every person has a responsibility to speak and act truthfully. No one, however high or mighty, should speak lies. The right to privacy and to personal and professional confidentiality is to be respected.
No one is obliged to tell all the truth to everyone all the time.
Article 13
No politicians, public servants, business leaders, scientists, writers or artists are exempt from general ethical standards, nor are physicians, lawyers and other professionals who have special duties to clients.
Professional and other codes of ethics should reflect the priority of general standards such as those of truthfulness and fairness.
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More detail here
http://hypography.com/forums/social-...rporate+ethics
PS
why worry about an academic cloning threat when you have mad cow disease?
Quote:
CDC DR. PAUL BROWN TSE EXPERT COMMENTS 2006
The U.S. Department of Agriculture was quick to assure the public earlier
this week that the third case of mad cow disease did not pose a risk to
them, but what federal officials have not acknowledged is that this latest
case indicates the deadly disease has been circulating in U.S. herds for at least a decade.
The second case, which was detected last year in a Texas cow and which USDA
officials were reluctant to verify, was approximately 12 years old.
These two cases (the latest was detected in an Alabama cow) present a
picture of the disease having been here for 10 years or so, since it is
thought that cows usually contract the disease from contaminated feed they
consume as calves. The concern is that humans can contract a fatal,
incurable, brain-wasting illness from consuming beef products contaminated
with the mad cow pathogen.
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http://mail.google.com/mail/?attid=0...0383f57ed08623
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"Unemployment is capitalism's way of getting you to plant a garden."
~Orson Scott Card 
Last edited by Michaelangelica; 01-20-2007 at 04:57 AM..
Reason: add PS
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01-20-2007
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#2 (permalink)
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Re: "You can't please all of the people", shareholders, officers, and regulators.
Need more than just a statement of ethics... we need the application of them. 
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01-20-2007
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#3 (permalink)
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Doing the Impossible
Location: Madison, OH (when not in fantasy land)
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Re: "You can't please all of the people", shareholders, officers, and regulators.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigD
The impact to the science, I think, would be less than the impact to business. However, recent history has shown that bans on transgen and clones products have had less bottom-line impact on major, diversified business, and to economies as a whole, than suggested by pessimistic predictions. The big losers in such bannings have been small, highly leveraged start up companies dedicated entirely to a single line of research. This is why venture capitalism, though potentially lucrative, is risky.
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Thanks for the thoughtful reply, Craig. (As though there is ever another kind of reply from you.)
I would venture that with the market removed, much of the funding for continued research would disappear as well. Yes, there would be small companies who's business models were completely reliant upon the market for cloned goods becoming established, but there is also a great deal of capital being invested in general research that is justified by speculation of an obvious emerging market, even if it is not tied to the success of that market. For anyone to continue research they would need to do so in the hope that they created a product that would eventually be approved, or they would do it simply for the knowledge. There would always be research just because there is something to learn, but when there is a pot of gold at the end, it is much easier to get the research funded.
My other comment was far more politically targeted. If thee products were deemed unfit for consumption, blame would be placed. It would become a contentious political broo-ha-ha doubtlessly drawn down party lines claiming short sightedness, religious pandering, and class division. But what else is new?
Bill
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aka TheBigDog - Hypography Full Freaking Moderator
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The truth is incontravertible; malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end there it is. - Winston Churchill
TheBigDog's recommended reading: The Science of Success - Charles G. Koch
A neutron goes into a bar and asks the bartender, "How much for a beer?"
The bartender replies, "For you, no charge."
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01-20-2007
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#4 (permalink)
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Doing the Impossible
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Re: "You can't please all of the people", shareholders, officers, and regulators.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelangelica
You have a chilling way of stating the obvious
That is Why we need A Corpoate Statement of Ethics
At the moment ethical standards among Corporations is at an all time low.
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The statement that ethical standards are at an all time low, what is this supposed to mean? How do you measure it? Statements like that are purely opinion, and should be framed as such. It is my experience that over the past four years corporate ethical standards are at an all time high. I measure this by the requirements of The Sarbanes-Oxley Act (SOX), and the compliance of US corporations located around the world.
The company I work for has some 22,000 employees in 33+ countries around the world. We are a public US corporation, so we are required to comply with SOX. We may have spent $100,000,000 or more on the task of documenting our compliance with this act over the past 3 years. That includes the fees to the auditing firm, hiring consultants to help us with the audit process, updating processes to comply with the audit rules established, updating business systems to be compliant with the business rules established. All hard costs that someone in the company must know. There are also soft costs involved in following the new procedures. Simple tasks in the past have become a trail of red tape for the sake of compliance. And example. In the past I would be installing business systems in a new plant. I would fill out a paper with the names of the employees, and what we wanted their login names for the system to be. I, as the IT project manager could do this on my own authority. Now I need to fill out an entire request form for each user. That requires signature approval from the plant manager and the plant controller, and the employee. Copies are sent to a divisional processing center where the task is done. What I used to take 2 people and a single email (myself and the person doing the work) now takes 4 people plus each employee being processed. Why? Because of defending against hypothetical abuses of the system.
Our biggest competitors are foreign and private companies, none of whom were required to spend a dollar on compliance. That is money we didn't spend on R&D, or on capital investment, or on expanding markets. Research that includes making our products more environmentally friendly. Research that includes improving our use of recycled materials. It was money leached from profits for the purpose of generating "peace of mind" that every step is being taken to prevent fraud. Thanks so much for your acknowledgment of that effort (on behalf of the hundreds of millions of people working on this problem who apparently make no difference).
The act of auditing (we are audited every year as is every public US corporation), and all the attention paid certainly reduced the likelyhood of people committing corporate fraud. But it is no guarantee that corporate fraud does not still exist. That is not a function of business or corporations, it is a function of humanity. Some people are devious, and they will find ways of taking advantage of whatever system they are working in. All we can do is make it more and more difficult, and make the consequences less pleasant.
Corporations are also taking great strides in becoming more environmentally conscious. Generally speaking waste = inefficiency. Through the simple process of continuous improvement the amount of waste within an industry gets lower over time on a per unit basis. Corporations also do a great deal internally, locally, nationally, and globally to be known as "green" or environmentally friendly. Progress is made every day on every front to lower the environmental impact of industry. The trend is in the favor of clean, and that is not just because of the political correctness and the marketing appeal, but in the very end because it is the most cost effective way of doing business.
And all of that is why I take exception to your rather flippant comment that ethical standards are at an all time low. You may WANT to see that as just common knowledge, but it is in fact nothing but uninformed BS or political spin.
Bill
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The truth is incontravertible; malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end there it is. - Winston Churchill
TheBigDog's recommended reading: The Science of Success - Charles G. Koch
A neutron goes into a bar and asks the bartender, "How much for a beer?"
The bartender replies, "For you, no charge."
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01-20-2007
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#5 (permalink)
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Re: "You can't please all of the people", shareholders, officers, and regulators.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBigDog
The statement that ethical standards are at an all time low, what is this supposed to mean? How do you measure it? Statements like that are purely opinion, and should be framed as such. It is my experience that over the past four years corporate ethical standards are at an all time high.
And all of that is why I take exception to your rather flippant comment that ethical standards are at an all time low. You may WANT to see that as just common knowledge, but it is in fact nothing but uninformed BS or political spin.
Bill
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What you say about your own company/experience sounds like good news BgDog
I guess it depends on your point of view.
Is the glass half empty or half full?
From my experince, looking from this end of the world, the glass is half empty.
Googling local press I was hard pressed to find more than one good news story re corporate ethics.
That is not to say that things arn't getting better and corporations are becoming aware of ethics.
My comment was not intended to be flippant. It is what I beleive.
SOME EXAMPLES (of Why I believe this):
Quote:
McDonald's Business Ethics
How far and how high does the rot go?
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McDonald's business ethics
Cases of the McDonalds Corporation poor business ethics and corporate governance - financial conduct
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Dr Simon Longstaff, Executive Director of St James Ethics Centre, said that Australian companies are generally doing well in the area of Corporate Strategy. However, consistent with the latest UK Index results, more work needs to be done to ensure that responsible business practice is embedded throughout all areas of business activity.
"Both British and Australian companies fall short of community expectations that they not only develop policies for responsible business practice, but also implement these," he said. "Once you start to delve into the ways businesses actually act on the strategies articulated in their corporate documents, it's clear that more work is required in this area
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media release: 28.8.04 - corporate responsibility index
Quote:
"The thing that motivates me and motivates the Government more than anything else is outcomes,'' Mr Kennett said. "What we want is the best people available to do a job
Proust Soars To A New Challenge,
One of the defining features of the modern marketplace, of Mayne Nickless, and of politicians in the 1990's has been their imperviousness to the sensibilities of others and their willingness to fly in the face of established protective norms and community perceptions of propriety.
They define success in terms of outcomes and pay little attention to how those outcomes are attained.
They model themselves on modern management and adopt the marketplace ethics of modern managers.
In Mayne Nickless we have an organisation pursued and heavily fined by one arm of government for antisocial, dishonest and illegal behaviour detrimental to other citizens - a thoroughly unsavoury group of citizens. At the same time another arm of government, intent on a different set of outcomes has courted this company, given its staff senior government positions, used it as a vehicle for government policy and passed laws to make its activities legal.
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Mayne Nickless :: Conflicts of Interest
Quote:
Steal Big, Steal Little
Corporate malfeasance isn't confined solely to the executive suite. Corruption has trickled down to all levels of the organisational hierarchy, and companies may have only themselves to blame.
"We've gotten so used to the high-profile scandals, with billion-dollar costs and executives with flashy lifestyles, that we're missing the real point," says Chris Bauer, a psychologist and author in Nashville, Tennessee, who gives ethics training to corporate workforces.
"We've slipped into thinking that ethics problems are caused by a small group of corporate psychopaths.
The reality is that it's going on all the time, at all levels of companies."
In a 2004 study, the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners reports that the average American company loses 6 percent of its annual revenue to internal malfeasance, ranging from fraudulent financial statements to kickbacks extorted from suppliers.
The total cost to the U.S. economy has increased by 50 percent over the past eight years, to a staggering $660 billion.
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Challenge Consulting - Press Release - Steal Big, Steal Little
Quote:
In good company
Date: December 16 2006
As public confidence in corporations plummets, they are trying to reinvent themselves with a soft centre, writes Julian Lee.
WHEN the millionaire adman John Singleton says he wants to save the whale, and big banks start running TV ads telling us they won't back businesses that harm the environment or the community, you have to ask yourself - has business finally found a heart?
All too often corporate Australia is in the headlines for all the wrong reasons, cutting jobs or moving them abroad, executives caught with their noses in the trough or hands in the till.
Things are gradually changing.
Businesses are going the extra mile to get their employees, customers and suppliers to admire them.
. . ,
Last month the first industry organisation aimed at promoting corporate social responsibility - the unwieldy term by which a more ethical approach to business and the community is known - came into being.
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www.smh.com.au - In good company
A good news story
Quote:
What is corporate social responsibility?
In modern society, the power of corporations is growing rapidly.
Of the world�s top 100 economies, 51 are actually corporations rather than countries. (1)
Corporations are responsible to their all their stakeholders � shareholders, employees, suppliers and customers.
By ensuring their work practices are fair to people in poor communities, and by avoiding environmentally damaging practices, they can positively impact the communities in which they operate and ensure stakeholder value.
Social conscience and profitability possible
The World Business Council for Sustainable Development describes corporate social responsibility as: �the continuing commitment by business to behave ethically and contribute to economic development while improving the quality of life of the workforce and their families as well as the local community and society at large.� (2)
Companies operate in part because the society in which they exist makes it possible. If individuals have a social conscience, why not companies, which are ultimately made up of people?
Naturally, this can�t be at the expense of profitability. Many companies are showing that it�s possible to achieve both.
Westpac Bank is one of them.
Westpac�s corporate social responsibility commitments span areas such as human rights, biodiversity, climate change, corporate governance and social, ethical and environmental risk.
Westpac also actively supports the involvement of its staff in the community, by providing flexible working conditions and a paid day of leave for staff to participate in community activities. All these activities have increased staff morale and reduced employee turnover.
Dr Noel Purcell, Westpac�s Group General Manager, Stakeholder Communications, believes that companies don�t have much choice but to take their responsibilities seriously.
�It is in a company�s intelligent self interest to embark on a responsibility program � to take responsibility for managing the various impacts that they have on the economy, on the environment and also on the people that they impact.
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World Vision Australia - Connect - Ethics in business
This is interesting on the psychology of organisations
Quote:
Writing in the journal Research Technology Management earlier this year, the esteemed US psychoanalyst Michael Maccoby implies that we have forgotten the difference between ethical and moral behaviour.
"Ethics has to do with obeying the rules.
Morality has to do with reasoning and behaving according to values that go beyond narrow self-interest.
A change of incentives combined with regulation can improve long-term results and corporate ethics. But it won't create moral organisations."
Maccoby cites the work of Harvard psychologist Lawrence Kohlberg, who identified three levels of moral reasoning.
People at the higher levels decide what will benefit others beyond the immediate group, and those in the middle conform to what is good for their family organisation. At the lowest level are those who blindly obey authority.
Unfortunately, says Maccoby, most people in organisations are at the lower level, because telling the truth, asking hard questions and delivering bad news are career-limiting moves.
�
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MUCH more here
Sort ethics from morals - Leon Gettler - www.theage.com.au
Quote:
Business Ethics
The Australian Wheat Board scandal may not be a one-off as news breaks that seven possible breaches of the UN's sanctions on the oil-for-food program are being investigated by the Australian Federal Police.
So when do business ethics conflict with moral ethics?
Do business leaders exist in a society within a society where success is rewarded, no matter how that success is achieved?
A society where the emphasis is on the numbers and immediate success rather than on long-term values?
What drives good leaders to make unethical (not to mention illegal) choices? The businesses don't need to be Enrons, WorldComs or the AWB.
There are questions here that small business owners need to consider.
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The Sydney Morning Herald Blogs: Open All Hours
Quote:
[QUOTE]Why managers fail to do the right thing
Filed in archive Ethics by leon on January 19, 2007
How effective a deterrent is the threat of a jail sentence or heavy fine?
Why do managers keep stepping over the line when it come to ethical behavior?
And why do the same things keep happening over and over again, despite governments constantly bringing in tougher laws.
Just some of the questions raised by this London Business School study, Why Managers Fail To Do The Right Thing: An Empirical Study of Unethical and Illegal Conduct by N. Craig Smith, Sally S Simpson and Chun-Yao Huang.
The researchers found that bringing in more stringent laws, like Sarbanes-Oxley, has little effect on changing bad behavior.
They based their research on surveys that asked managers on how they would respond to unethical and illegal acts: price-fixing, bribery or violation of emission standards.
They were also measured on how they would respond to the threat of formal sanctions, how their actions stacked up against their own sense of morality, outcome expectancies (e.g. job loss, loss of respect, jeopardizing future job prospects and obedience to authority (i.e. their receptiveness to the Nuremberg Defence ["I was following orders"]). The respondents were in their mid-thirties, white and of US nationality. Two thirds were male, over half were married, all well-educated and most were experienced managers.
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Sox First - Main page - Business is the most important thing - and there SOX comes first. - Sarbanes-Oxley, management, compliance, IPO, enron
I could go to page 2 of my Google search if you like;
but hopefully you can see that my remark was not intended to be flippant. Quite the contrary.
The suggestions I made for a Coporate "Script" in my previous post came from Malcolm Frazer an ex-Prime Minister of Australia.
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"Unemployment is capitalism's way of getting you to plant a garden."
~Orson Scott Card 
Last edited by Michaelangelica; 01-20-2007 at 09:14 PM..
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01-20-2007
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#6 (permalink)
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Doing the Impossible
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Re: FDA calls cloned meats and milk safe!!???
Did it ever occur to you that nobody writes news stories about companies that don't have problems. Your seeing it as half empty is being optimistic. The impression you leave is a choice of half empty/half useless. Or even half empty/ half evil. Since you say you see the "empty" side, you should now understand how I feel framed in your statements.
Bill
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aka TheBigDog - Hypography Full Freaking Moderator
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The truth is incontravertible; malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end there it is. - Winston Churchill
TheBigDog's recommended reading: The Science of Success - Charles G. Koch
A neutron goes into a bar and asks the bartender, "How much for a beer?"
The bartender replies, "For you, no charge."
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01-20-2007
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#7 (permalink)
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Re: FDA calls cloned meats and milk safe!!???
[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBigDog
Did it ever occur to you that nobody writes news stories about companies that don't have problems.
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Not true, especially in this area. Did you read my post? There was a least one good story and a couple of "C+s" (try harder)
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Your seeing it as half empty is being optimistic.
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Pessimistic perhaps? I have seen a lot of evil in corporations. Often promoted by their hierarchical structure.
Things like bribery is a way of life when doing business in Asia and the Middle East
Quote:
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The impression you leave is a choice of half empty/half useless. Or even half empty/ half evil. Since you say you see the "empty" side, you should now understand how I feel framed in your statements.
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No, sorry I don't get "useless" or "framed" Are you being unnecessarily paranoid?
The choice is to see the glass as half empty or half full.
You choose to see the good news stories.
I choose to see the bad.
Perhaps the truth is somewhere in the middle?
Who knows?
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"Unemployment is capitalism's way of getting you to plant a garden."
~Orson Scott Card 
Last edited by Michaelangelica; 01-20-2007 at 09:40 PM..
Reason: typo
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02-02-2007
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#8 (permalink)
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Re: FDA calls cloned meats and milk safe!!???
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"Unemployment is capitalism's way of getting you to plant a garden."
~Orson Scott Card 
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02-02-2007
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#9 (permalink)
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Re: FDA calls cloned meats and milk safe!!???
To paraphrase Bill - Bad news sells.
You don't see as many reports about good companies as bad.
In your media, do you get reports of crime? Do you get reports of people that help someone cross a street?
Yes, there are bad people out there. And yes, some of them run businesses. However, the business I helped run for many years was very upstanding. We didn't cheat anyone and we paid all our bills on time and in full.
Of the businesses I have dealt with in the last year, all but one has been adequate to outstanding. One was incompetant, but not necessarily unethical.
Forget news reports, look at your own experience.
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"Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents; it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.
(Ancient Indian Proverb)"
1874 engraving of Mount Hood and the Columbia River by R. Henshel Wood
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02-03-2007
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#10 (permalink)
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Re: FDA calls cloned meats and milk safe!!???
[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zythryn
You don't see as many reports about good companies as bad.
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Yes you do see above post
Quote:
[/QUOT
Forget news reports, look at your own experience.
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I am
I think we have a cultural problem here.
Americans (USAans) seem to have much faith in their police, judiciary, legal system, politicians, public officials, corporate managers.
While in Australia that would be laughable. We expect them all to be corrupt and work for their own vested interests.
I think part of the problem is the US's rabid patriotism. While Australians are proud of their country they are not as patriotic as you are in the USA. This patriotism blinds you to a lot of bad stuff that goes down.
The present Oz right-wing government is trying to encourage patriotism with flag waving etc. But many Australians treat this move with suspicion too, and usually use the flag as a hat, beach-towel, Superman cloak or portable shade house while watching the cricket.
Can you imagine working for a company that has a little more than 500
employees and has the following statistics:
* 29 have been accused of spousal abuse
* 7 have been arrested for fraud
* 19 have been accused of writing bad checks
* 117 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses
* 3 have done time for assault
* 71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit
* 14 have been arrested on drug-related charges
* 8 have been arrested for shoplifting
* 21 are currently defendants in lawsuits
* 84 have been arrested for drunk driving in the last year
Can you guess which organization this is?
US Congress
(A year or so old, may need to be up-dated.)
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"Unemployment is capitalism's way of getting you to plant a garden."
~Orson Scott Card 
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