Why are 'things' from China so cheap?

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by Boerseun

Ironical, too, is that even with China's economy growing like a monkey on 'roids, the Chinese economy must be five to six times that of the US' economy for it to be the same as the US per capita, simply because there's one hell of a lot of people in China!

So, don't let the reports confuse you. For a long time yet, China will be a country of poor people, regardless of it's GDP being bigger than the US.

Still a while to go eg:-
#1 United States: $11,667,515,000,000.00
#2 Japan: $4,623,398,000,000.00
#3 Germany: $2,714,418,000,000.00
#4 United Kingdom: $2,140,898,000,000.00
#5 France: $2,002,582,000,000.00
#6 Italy: $1,672,302,000,000.00
#7 China: $1,649,329,000,000.00
#8 Spain: $991,442,000,000.00
#9 Canada: $979,764,000,000.00
#10 India: $691,876,000,000.00
#11 Korea, South: $679,674,000,000.00

China has only just caught up with USA pollution levels
NationMaster - Statistics > GDP > Nominal by country

• China’s GDP equals that of California, Oregon, Washington State and Nevada – oh, and Alaska and Hawaii

135 - Update On the GDP Map of the USA « strange maps

The wealth gap in China between its urban and rural citizens is now one of the largest in the world. Farmers pay their own health care and education costs, meaning their real incomes are a sixth of China’s urban residents. Democracy remains the last priority for the Chinese Government.

Some believe that China’s continuing focus on economic reform, without a democratic system
. . . .
Democracy is not a concept inherent in Chinese culture or political philosophy.

The goal of 'democracy with Chinese characteristics' - On Line Opinion - 5/7/2007

[Boerseun]

I read the last link in your previous post, and I must say that I agree fully on the point that democracy will only work in China provided it's a "Chinese-flavoured" Democracy. Too often the idea of "Democracy" have been imposed on a country either not ready for it, or culturally alienated to the concept, ending up in the disasters you see around Africa today.

Not all countries are alike, not all societies are alike, and not all political systems are all good or all bad. A mix might be just what the doctor ordered.

[Racoon]

Originally Posted by Boerseun

I read the last link in your previous post, and I must say that I agree fully on the point that democracy will only work in China provided it's a "Chinese-flavoured" Democracy. Too often the idea of "Democracy" have been imposed on a country either not ready for it, or culturally alienated to the concept, ending up in the disasters you see around Africa today.

Not all countries are alike, not all societies are alike, and not all political systems are all good or all bad. A mix might be just what the doctor ordered.

Have you ever taken the Communist Party Oath?

China is as rife with corruption, unscrupulous practices, and pollution as any "Superpower" there ever was..

Thinking an exponentially rising China is a good thing to offset American Power is ridiculous. Its more of the same and usually worse!
Worse labor practices. worse product and environmental control..
They don't benefit humanity by their International policies.

What is China's contributions to philanthropical endevours across the world??
I'd be very curious.
You can complain, Boerseun, about Bill Gates giving billions to Africa, but I don't see the Chinese reallly trying to help out around the world..

Its in the Globalists hands at this point already .

[LaurieAG]

Originally Posted by Boerseun

Not all countries are alike, not all societies are alike, and not all political systems are all good or all bad. A mix might be just what the doctor ordered.

A good point Boerseun.

In Afghanistan, East Timor and Iraq recently (to name a few) the people have voted at referendums to change their sovereignty status and introduce democracy.

In Australia we have a democracy but our people never got the opportunity to vote at a referendum to change our sovereignty status.

Despite the differences in the treatment of 'democracy' and sovereignty status in such vastly different countries as Australia and Iraq, a high proportion of citizens in both countries think that the occupation of Iraq should stop (and troops should be withdrawn), but our 'democratic' politicians think otherwise.

[Buffy]

Originally Posted by Racoon

China is as rife with corruption, unscrupulous practices, and pollution as any "Superpower" there ever was..

Yah, but I love what they do with their corrupt politicians... Wish they'd do that here, but it would be considered "excessive" unless they were Democrats....

Obstruction of Justice,
Buffy

[Boerseun]

Originally Posted by Racoon

Have you ever taken the Communist Party Oath?
...yada yada yada...
Its in the Globalists hands at this point already .

I don't completely follow you there, Rac. China is today prolly one of the biggest investors and employers in Africa. You might not agree to their labour practices in China itself, but all member states of the African Union are bound to minimum wage laws and fair labour practices. Whether it's consistently applied across the board is not guaranteed, obviously, similar to every in every other country in the world, the US included.

Methinks the Racoon doth protest too much.

[C1ay]

They're cheap according to your standard of living in your country. The value to them is higher than what you've paid...

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by Racoon

China is as rife with corruption, unscrupulous practices, and pollution as any "Superpower" there ever was..

Thinking an exponentially rising China is a good thing to offset American Power is ridiculous. Its more of the same and usually worse!
Worse labor practices. worse product and environmental control..
They don't benefit humanity by their International policies.

I tend to agree with you but they are changing especially on the environment front, possibly faster than the USA
I like to live in a society which has some modicum of free speech; although I see that being eroded daily by Corporate media takeovers, government paranoia and excessive secrecy and restrictive "anti-terror" laws.
So I would not like to live in China, whose "free speech" and human rights record is slightly worse than ours.

What is China's contributions to philanthropical endevours across the world??
I'd be very curious.
You can complain, Boerseun, about Bill Gates giving billions to Africa, but I don't see the Chinese reallly trying to help out around the world..

Just saw a TV show about Chinese buying up copper in Zambia? Pretty terrible conditions but a lot of that the fault of the local Governments inability to enforce labor laws

On philanthropy, they have a lot of ground to make up as many Chinese live in appalling,abject poverty.
BUT

Jonathan Watts in Beijing
Wednesday December 15, 2004
The Guardian

China is set to complete the transition from aid recipient to international donor in the next year,

China has been a significant contributor to relief operations in other countries over the last few years. Mostly the aid has come in the form of materials and medical care, but also in cash. According to the article published on the web site of Papua New Guinea's Embassy to the Americas, China's aid policy is one that fosters equality and mutually-beneficial development.

This year, China has again generously offered a helping hand to those in need. The Calibre writes that is has donated almost 40,000 euros to flood ravaged Uruguay. In March, China gave about 6 million euros in aid to Jordan for upgrading a local water supply network, CRI Nordic reports. China.org reveals that in the first 11 months of 2006, Chinese foreign aid extended to a total of 86 developing countries.

China takes up civic work in Africa
It's sending 1,809 UN peacekeepers and 300 volunteers in a new Chinese 'peace corps' program.
By Danna Harman | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor
The number of Chinese peacekeepers worldwide is much smaller than the number that Pakistan supplies the UN – currently 10,173 according to UN statistics – or India, which has sent 9,471 of its nationals to participate in most of the UN's 15 current missions worldwide.

But, it's more than South Africa (1,188 blue helmets) or Brazil (1,277) have in the field – and far more than the US, which, unlike 118 other countries, puts no boots on the ground. (The US does, however, provide the largest chunk of the funding for these missions – 26 percent of the total. China, in turn, provides 3 percent.)
Since 2000 China has canceled more than $10 billion in debt for 31 African countries and has given $5.5 billion in development aid, with a promise of a further $2.6 billion in 2007-08, according to estimates by the Economist Intelligence Unit.

Beijing has overtaken the World Bank in lending to Africa: In 2005, China committed $8 billion in lending to Nigeria, Angola, and Mozambique alone – the same year the World Bank spent $2.3 billion in all of Africa.

In 2006, lending by China's Exim Bank was $12.5 billion – and is set to rise by more than $5 billion in 2007, according to the EIU estimates.

The loans China offered Africa in 2006 were three times the total development aid given by rich countries in the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD),
and nearly 25 times the total stock of loans and export credits approved by the US Export-Import Bank for sub-Saharan Africa

China takes up civic work in Africa | csmonitor.com

Times Select Content China Competes With West in Aid to Its Neighbors
By JANE PERLEZ

Eager for stable friends, China is making big loans for big projects in poor Asian countries, competing with the World Bank at its own game.
September 18, 2006 World News

Not a bad effort, in a few years really, maybe they remember what being poor feels like?


On the OATH
It sounds a bit like something I hear Americans reciting
Of course to take it in the USA would probably be illegal and would certainly reduce your job opportunities.
Article 20: Oath to the Proletariat and Party

Article 20.1 Upon joining all members must swear the following oath:

I, as a member of the International Communist Party, do hereby swear allegiance to the Socialist cause.
I pledge both myself and my nation in the fight against Capitalist and Imperialist oppression. The International Communist Party is the torch that shall spark the Revolution.
I shall defend the Party and its cause with all the resources at my disposal. I shall not take up arms against my brethren, nor will I disobey the mandates of the General Congress.
I will honour the rules laid out by the Constitution of our Alliance, and swear obedience to its Laws. I pledge my life and my honour to the good of the Proletariat, for it is through them that the Party is made strong. Let my comrades bare witness to this oath.

[Michaelangelica]

Sunday 01 July 2007

Listen Now - 01072007 | Download Audio - 01072007
Will Hutton on The Chinese Bubble

China's titanic rise is the biggest news since the Industrial Revolution. Developed nations are in awe. Some, like the United States, are in fear.
However, according to writer and long time China-observer Will Hutton Western anxieties are misplaced. Hutton sees China sitting on the edge of a very deep precipice. He cites endemic corruption, environmental depredation, widening inequality, and insufficent job creation as just some of the challenges threatening to bring China undone.
Join us for a spirited naysaying of the Chinese revolution, with Will Hutton at a business breakfast in Sydney.

Big Ideas

[Racoon]

Originally Posted by Boerseun

I don't completely follow you there, Rac. China is today prolly one of the biggest investors and employers in Africa. You might not agree to their labour practices in China itself, but all member states of the African Union are bound to minimum wage laws and fair labour practices. Whether it's consistently applied across the board is not guaranteed, obviously, similar to every in every other country in the world, the US included.

Methinks the Racoon doth protest too much.

I've seen that investment as well.
Granted in documetaries and not in real life..
My apologies..

But lets just say Communism and Labor practices don't go hand in hand with beneficial prosperity for all concerned.

Conversely, with whats happened in Africa from the Western influence, it isn't a greater picture painted either.

I guess Africa is just doomed to being screwed and exploited.