Guantanamo Bay: Shame on you, United States

[ErlyRisa]

oh woeless me...

How do you get a chicken to lay an egg.... build it a barn (Terrorist = Chicken, Barn = Iraq -syrian and iranian observation, Afghanistan - Pakistani observation)

How do you entertain the populous... give them reason for existing,
*France, viva la revolution.... giveth
*Marxism, Communism, Utopianism, Hippyism and finally Californication.

How do you gain insight into the possibility of future revolutionary western demographics...
Create.
Observational digress from the norm, and piont it out on Utube.
Eaxmples include the hippy movement.

The possibility of terrorism as a suburban norm: Cite: 5th Element.
Is all too real.
Recently an Aussie Melbourne boy highlighted the ease at which he can organise a party and "charge for membership", while at the same time, pul and prod the masses (with his parents co-operating on his behalf) ... my guess so-far is that this kid has made $20 grand in under a couple of days.

Preparing for the worst... in the hope that society can be kept on it's logarithmic rise to singularity...
-Learn the tactics of the terrorist, and apply that knowledge for the possibilty of the worst outcome.

The two types of servants of the western world are those that are called the "Silent Majority" - observing and somewhat understanding the end goal, hence enacting on daily underatakings in a wise and un-inhibited piose.
And the vocal minority: The ones that we(the majority - the silent think tanks) observe, the ones that reguritate each others sound bytes, and care-less about what it is to live, than what it is to "How they will show the world" - 90% of them don't know how to spell Che Guevera.

Wailing Research.... see how they wail., count the numbers, take note of the tactics. Prepare for the possibilty "shuting down" the system, in order to alleviate the pressures placed on the Vocal minor mob thought processes.

Allow the migration of the vocal mins that are usually more affluent than the common public away from suburbia... give them time to allow for regress and re-invigorated co-operation on thier trend driven stance. It is now easier to observe the dynamics of the system, away from the cities. In the meantime the minority reports end up spreading to outer areas, it can be observed how the dynamics of revolution enact on the unwitting masses.

Give the new generation an avenue to vent thier gripes, without having to resort to looking up the "terrorist's handbook" - which would also allow for an upgrade to the server watching the dynamics of the handbook's proliferation. It started with hotmail, and moves on to Facebook (the 30+ office worker's portal to vent) Give them Myspace and the TOR network, see just how they co-operate.

Keeping things rolling will be a little more difficult than we might hope. Gen Y and Z, and the folow up ABC's will not be same type of people as thier non-western counterparts. It will be very difficult indeed to convince a Chinese rice pattie farmer to buy a yellow vest and wear it, unless you nano gps it... and if you do nano gps it - will the chinese peasant decied to go onto a blog, via a TOR net and gain support to bring down the system... you know what I hope he does.

so what do you gain from my conspiracist insight...
that those that are "concerned", that the rest of us are sheep, are in effect, the biggest sheep of all.

[freeztar]

What does that have to do with GB, Erly?

[REASON]

Getting back to the topic at hand, here are a few articles addressing concerns about Gitmo:

McClatchy Washington Bureau | 01/11/2008 | In voiding suit, appellate court says torture is to be expected

...After being held for more than two years, the four men were repatriated to Britain in 2004, where they were freed within 24 hours without facing criminal charges, said Washington lawyer Eric Lewis, who represented them along with the New York-based Center for Constitutional Rights.

Three of the men — Shafiq Rasul, Asif Iqbal and Rhuhel Ahmed — say they traveled to Afghanistan from Pakistan in October 2001 to provide humanitarian relief but were seized by an Uzbek warlord in northern Afghanistan the next month and sold to U.S. troops for bounty money. The three said they were unarmed and never engaged in combat against the United States.

The fourth, Jamal al Harith, said he'd planned to attend a religious retreat in Pakistan in October 2001 but was ordered to leave the country because of animosity toward Britons. When he tried to drive a truck home via Iran and Turkey, he says, his truck was hijacked at gunpoint and he was handed over to the Taliban, who jailed him and accused him of being a spy. When the Taliban fell after the U.S.-led invasion, he was detained and transported to Guantanamo...

Andy Worthington | Six Years of Guantanamo

...The irony, which became apparent only later, was that the reason that so many of the detainees were not forthcoming in their interrogations was not because they were al-Qaeda terrorists who were trained to resist interrogation, but because they had no information to give. When the government's own documents were analyzed, in reports by the Seton Hall Law School (PDF), and in my book The Guantánamo Files: The Stories of the 774 Detainees in America's Illegal Prison, it became apparent that the majority of the detainees had not been captured by U.S. forces on the battlefield, as alleged, but had been sold to them by their Afghan and Pakistani allies, at a time when bounty payments of $5,000 a head for al-Qaeda and Taliban suspects were widespread...

Joint Chiefs chairman: close Guantanamo - Yahoo! News

GUANTANAMO BAY NAVAL BASE, Cuba - The chief of the U.S. military said Sunday he favors closing the prison here as soon as possible because he believes negative publicity worldwide about treatment of terrorist suspects has been "pretty damaging" to the image of the United States.

"I'd like to see it shut down," Adm. Mike Mullen said in an interview with three reporters who toured the detention center with him on his first visit since becoming chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff last October...

[Racoon]

Originally Posted by Boerseun

Racoon, saying that there's nothing to worry about the conditions that terrorists and would-be terrorists are living under in Gitmo, and joking around flatscreen TV's, etc., have you considered the moral implications of holding those people, without them being charged with anything? Forget about the torture craziness, that speaks for itself and is indefensible - but holding them on flimsy premises, with no official charges? Whazzat? How do you defend that? Really?

.

Not joking around, mate.. but rather trivializing and sarcasting.

What happened to the few inmates that were released?
They quickly went back to taking arms up against the US.

Theres a few prisoners in Guantanamo. But perhaps the situation in Kenya and other more closer locales might re-direct a bit of your concern there Borseun ..

I do anything BUT support Bush Jr. and his policies. In fact I have to come to some incongruent reason to support them, against what I would have done in his shoes ... So as not to go Cho and shoot up a College or commercial mall.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

What happened to the few inmates that were released?
They quickly went back to taking arms up against the US. -Raccoon

With even more gasoline to pour on the fire...making it yet even easier to recruit more like minded individuals to take up arms against us.

We need to get our s#!t together!!! and SOON!!

Our legacy of hate and abuse of the civil rights of our own citizens is bad enough...We're supposed to be better than that now...We don't allow other nations to behave as we have been...it's time live up to the same level of descency and humanity that we expect the of rest of the world.

How many more nations will we to pi$$ off before measures are taken to protect the rest of the world from us and we are reguarded as no better than the NAZI's?!?!?!?!?! A threat to be eliminated at all costs?

NO Govt. has the right to allow the violation of the civil rights of any human being....regardless of it's reasons.

We try leaders of other nations (even executed one) and their subordinates for this $#!+ WE therefore have no excuse and no right to do it to others.

All involved should be prosecuted and sentenced just like any other war criminal...including our wonderfull Commander In Chief!

[REASON]

Originally Posted by Racoon

What happened to the few inmates that were released?
They quickly went back to taking arms up against the US.

On what do you base this notion, Racoon?
How do you know this is true?

[Racoon]

Originally Posted by REASON

On what do you base this notion, Racoon?
How do you know this is true?

Prove it not true!
I'm NOT supporting Guantanamo. Why don't You prove that they will go right back to being productive citizens ?

Just saying that This is what the Administaton has evolved into! I can't change whats already been done.. Nor any American at that..
I am being a pragmatic realist.. Thank you Free Speech!!


Quit saying "Shame on You " as if you wish to include all Americans into your little 'Holyier than Thou' free speach Mike...

You might want to recognize that Islam wants to take your government down,,,

[REASON]

Originally Posted by Racoon

Prove it not true!

Now you know better than that on this site, Rac.

Originally Posted by Racoon

I'm NOT supporting Guantanamo. Why don't You prove that they will go right back to being productive citizens?

1. I'm not accusing you of anything.
2. I'm not asserting what they are doing. You are.

I just wonder where you get that impression. How do you know they are guilty of anything? We have released 492 detainees since the prison was opened. Would we have done that if we believed that they were likely to take up arms against us once released? If they were innocent prior to being held, should we be surprised if they choose to take up arms against us now?

Just saying that This is what the Administaton has evolved into! I can't change whats already been done.. Nor any American at that..
I am being a pragmatic realist.. Thank you Free Speech!!

But we can change how we intend to proceed. And I promise to always defend your right of free speech.

You might want to recognize that Islam wants to take your government down,,,

This is another fallacious statement. Being Islamophobic is very unbecoming of you. It is not Islam that wants retribution. It is fanatical, fundamentalist, jihadists that have distorted Islam and want to harm our interests in an effort to protect their own. They cannot take down our government. There will always be radicals in this world. We have them here in our own country. Our goal should be to marginalize them into insignificance, not bolster their cause.

[questor]

To those who would close Gitmo, what do we do with the prisoners, release them all? Perhaps we could send them to the countries that are crying out against their treatment. Perhaps these people who have been captured for alleged terrorist acts would be treated properly and have legal access to the courts of more lenient governments. I, for one, would support this action. Why should the US be criticised for trying to fight terror with it's own money and the blood of its young soldiers, while the usual slackers in defending their own countries verbally abuse us? There is nothing inherently good or bad about Gitmo. If the prisoners were not there, they would be somewhere else under the same conditions or worse. Most are living under far better conditions at Gitmo than they were at home. Plus, they are not killing any more of our soldiers OR citizens of other countries. The terrorists have shown they are willing to kill people of any country, age, ethnicity, or gender. Do you want more beheadings of innocent people, or would you like for the Americans to continue to clean up the bad guys while being criticised by the very people they have sacrificed for on several occasions? I would like to say
to Hell with the rest of the world, let them fight their own battles with their own soldiers and their own money while we withdraw a bit from the global stage. We could better take care of ourselves without the constant criticism from our ''friends''.

[Michaelangelica]

[quote]

Originally Posted by questor

To those who would close Gitmo, what do we do with the prisoners, release them all?

they should be well trained prisoners with a good network by now.

Perhaps we could send them to the countries that are crying out against their treatment. Perhaps these people who have been captured for alleged terrorist acts would be treated properly and have legal access to the courts of more lenient governments. I, for one, would support this action.

You created the problem you keep them. if you stick a stick into a hornets nest you take the consequences.
I would be surprised if many would want to "turn the other cheek" for being banged up for no reason or justification. I would be out for revenge.

Why should the US be criticised for trying to fight terror with it's own money and the blood of its young soldiers, while the usual slackers in defending their own countries verbally abuse us?

Who asked you?
Who invited you?

There is nothing inherently good or bad about Gitmo.

Yes there is. It is illegal, immoral, unjust, unfair. If it was legal why not have it on your own soil instead of a county you hate and have screwed for years?

If the prisoners were not there, they would be somewhere else under the same conditions or worse. Most are living under far better conditions at Gitmo than they were at home.

Not not true. Have you seen a Gitimo cell?



A video here

YouTube - Guantanamo Bay Cell at UNSW

Guantanamo Bay Cell at UNSW - AOL Video

I am at home having a drink watching the cricket.
How would I be better off in GB?

Posted: 05 April 2007

In a new report published today (5 April), Amnesty International says that 80% of detainees at the US military prison at Guantánamo Bay in Cuba are being held in solitary confinement, often in harsh and inhumane conditions.

AIUK : USA: Guantánamo Bay - New report shows 80% of detainees in solitary confinement

Plus, they are not killing any more of our soldiers OR citizens of other countries. The terrorists have shown they are willing to kill people of any country, age, ethnicity, or gender. Do you want more beheadings of innocent people, or would you like for the Americans to continue to clean up the bad guys while being criticised by the very people they have sacrificed for on several occasions? I would like to say

Are the people in Gitimo terrorists?
How do you know?
How does anyone know?

to Hell with the rest of the world, let them fight their own battles with their own soldiers and their own money while we withdraw a bit from the global stage. We could better take care of ourselves without the constant criticism from our ''friends''.

Another thin-skinned, patriotic, Yank.
Have you ever read your constitution?
How do you "fit" those words with what is happening in GB.? Not without a great deal of cognitive dissonance?
To your 'real' "friends" Israel, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan you can do no wrong.

So when do you intend to "withdraw"?
Bush announced more troops going to Afghanistan this week.

What has GB got to do with "better take care of ourselves"?