Is Democracy naturally CORRUPT?

[charles brough]

A study was announced in MSN news in March of 2007 titled "Corporate Political Contributions and Stock Returns." The study found that the average corporation that gives money to a large number of Federal election candidates pays out to them on average each election year a total of only $100,000 but reaps such benefit that its stock price shows a 2.5% better annual improvement on average over all the other stocks on the stock exchanges.
If the practice were illegal, it would come under the title of bribery; but by it being legal, it is not considered in the States to be a corrupt practice. In such ways, Americans position ourselves to criticize government corruption in other countries---such as Russia, China, Palestine, Indonesia and all the others---while claiming for ourselves the “high moral ground.”
This may fool the American people, but does it fool the rest of the world? Perhaps they see through it enough that the American ideals of “democracy” and “free enterprise” are losing their luster. Where ever it is applied, it is corrupt. If corruption is doing this to our secular ideals and, for that reason, are unable to spread---even to be successfully imposed in Afghanistan and Iraq---what goals and ideals are there for the world's people to give purpose and hope to them? What else but to turn back to their old and by now obsolete religions?
Thus, we see inside the workings of social evolution, that is, the process by which past civilizations, and those of the present, that have all risen, have then all, also declined . . .

[Mike C]

Charles

Democracy is NOT the problem.
This word comes from the Greek root 'people power'. So our US Constitution has given the people that power. The trouble is, it is not working as it should.

Republic, comes from the Latin root 'WEALTH + public'.
So the republicans serve the wealthy to the demise of the public welfare.
Of course, the power of the Latin church has a lot to do with this.

Mike C

[eric l]

Originally Posted by Mike C

Charles

Democracy is NOT the problem.
This word comes from the Greek root 'people power'. So our US Constitution has given the people that power. The trouble is, it is not working as it should.

Republic, comes from the Latin root 'WEALTH + public'.
So the republicans serve the wealthy to the demise of the public welfare.
Of course, the power of the Latin church has a lot to do with this.

Mike C

I thought that "RES PUBLICA" just means "public affair", not necessarily "wealth". But "res" can also be translated as "business", and from there it's but a small step to "wealth".

I forget whom I'm quoting with "Power corrupts - absolute power corrupts absolutely", but I can aggree wholeheartedly. And in a democracy, there is no room for absolute power.

[Qfwfq]

Originally Posted by eric l

I thought that "RES PUBLICA" just means "public affair"

...and it does, with affair meant in the sense of administration, governance.

I don't get Mike's point about the power of the Latin church.

[charles brough]

Originally Posted by Mike C

Charles,Democracy is NOT the problem.
This word comes from the Greek root 'people power'. So our US Constitution has given the people that power. The trouble is, it is not working as it should.

Republic, comes from the Latin root 'WEALTH + public'.
So the republicans serve the wealthy to the demise of the public welfare.
Of course, the power of the Latin church has a lot to do with this.Mike C

I hope I was dealing with the words "democracy" and "republic" as what they really stand for now---not what they might mean from their ancient roots! You make it seem like the Democrats don't serve the wealthy because the word "democracy" means "people power"!

Our Constitution, by the way, gave the power to the landed rich. Wasn't it Jefferson who took it away and gave it to the commercial rich? You mention it is not working; I thought that was what I was writing about!

[charles brough]

Originally Posted by eric l

I thought that "RES PUBLICA" just means "public affair", not necessarily "wealth". But "res" can also be translated as "business", and from there it's but a small step to "wealth".

I forget whom I'm quoting with "Power corrupts - absolute power corrupts absolutely", but I can aggree wholeheartedly. And in a democracy, there is no room for absolute power.

"Power corrupts. . . ." Yes, and perhaps it corrupts the people as well after they have held power for a while. After all, what happened to the Greek democracy, so called (2/3 of the people were slaves and indentured)? It turned into a mobocracy and became corrupt. How can a democracy be maintained if the people themselves become apathetic, fearful, stressed out, violence and sex prone, divided, self-endulgent and unable to even elect competent people to represent them?

[Buffy]

So what political system is able to eliminate corruption?

I want one of those,
Buffy

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by charles brough

"Power corrupts. . . ." Yes, and perhaps it corrupts the people as well after they have held power for a while. After all, what happened to the Greek democracy, so called (2/3 of the people were slaves and indentured)? It turned into a mobocracy and became corrupt. How can a democracy be maintained if the people themselves become apathetic, fearful, stressed out, violence and sex prone, divided, self-endulgent and unable to even elect competent people to represent them?

I think you hit the nail on the head! Could a truly uncorrupted individual gain public office in today's political reality? Getting elected and spending the most money in the campaign are highly correlated, especially in state and federal elections.

[eric l]

Originally Posted by Freddy

I think you hit the nail on the head! Could a truly uncorrupted individual gain public office in today's political reality? Getting elected and spending the most money in the campaign are highly correlated, especially in state and federal elections.

If this is true, the public is also to blame. I give you a quote from a wise old politician (a very rare species indeed) who prefers to remain anonymous. "In a democracy you have to keep a sane level of distrust for those that you put in power. And if you are put in power yourself, you should increase that level of distrust. There are so many temptations, and it is so easy to believe you are always right because power is knowledge rather than the other way around." (I'm affraid my translation does not do it justice).

Bob Dylan worded it otherwise : "Don't follow leaders, watch you parking meters".

Democracy is not to be left to the people you ellect, it's the bussiness of everyone who considers him/herself part of the People.

[Mike C]

Originally Posted by eric l

I thought that "RES PUBLICA" just means "public affair", not necessarily "wealth". But "res" can also be translated as "business", and from there it's but a small step to "wealth".

I forget whom I'm quoting with "Power corrupts - absolute power corrupts absolutely", but I can aggree wholeheartedly. And in a democracy, there is no room for absolute power.

I got my information from my latest Websters Desk dictionary (1998) that described the roots briefly and concisely.
My earlier Websters (1987) was kind of confusing but still described our government more accurately as a democracy although the republic version was also accurately portrayed.
My American College dictionary (1967) was confusing.

If we look at the way our governments function today here in the US. The representative parties are described accurately as I said.
The republican party supports corruption (McCain/Feingold Bill) that was a step in the right direction to ban 'soft money' that did not have to be accounted for.

Mike C