The new Fascism

[wigglieverse]

<unsuitable and arguably hateful content removed>

[sanctus]

I'm also a big critic of the Israelian politic, but there are many differences between their actions and the one from nazis:
1) There is no plan to exterminate all Palestinians
2) The refugee camps can't be compared to concentration camps
3) There is no ghettoisation since they live in different places/cities
4) The intolerance is not of the same nature (no superior race definition)
5) They try not to go against civilians, but it happens...this is not the same as explicitly going against civilians

Just a few reasons that came into my mind but they are already enough to make the nazi far worse!

How do you explain the fact that a once oppressed people can turn so easily and find ready justification, for visiting the same thing on another people (who seem to fill the same role that the Jews played --as targets of hatred and demonisation)?

I don't agree that they do the same thing, but they are violent too; the reason for this is that it is always easier to "answer" (don't really know if one can define who started the first violence and hence who answered who) with violence (as simple as that), since all other solutions usually are slower.

[wigglieverse]

1) There is no plan to exterminate all Palestinians

As far as we know, you mean?

2) The refugee camps can't be compared to concentration camps

I think they can. Obviously the Isrealis haven't started building gas chambers and executing Palestinians as efficiently, but surely oppression is only a matter of degree. I would say there are plenty of Palestinian mothers who believe Israel is trying to destroy them.

3) There is no ghettoisation since they live in different places/cities

There most certainly is ghettoisation. Unless you can come up with another word for "enforced containment within a depleted area and denial of resources -like food, water, medicine..."

4) The intolerance is not of the same nature (no superior race definition)

Really? So there are no Israeli Jews who believe that they have a superior claim to the land? Or that the Jews are a special race (chosen by God hisself). There aren't any Jews with these beliefs who are MPs or prime ministers, or generals? Thank God for that then...

5) They try not to go against civilians, but it happens...this is not the same as explicitly going against civilians

They do no such thing. They have absolutely no regard (except for what the international community might have to say) for the lives of innocent Palestinians. They deploy snipers on Palestinian rooftops (because they are occupying Palestinian territory, remember?), and these guys shoot children playing, and parents or adults who try to rescue them. Just like a Jew-hating Nazi (IMO).This could be because they believe that Palestinians are an unwanted menace that must be dealt with (or it could be some other kind of 'misunderstanding').

[Inter.spem.et.metum]

The Israelis, and the Palestinians alike, do not have the same mindset as we do. They live in a different world. Life isn't treasured as much in that part of the world, and death is all around them. Both sides have no respect for each other, do not forget that.

The Israelis don't know who is the enemy and who isn't, so they kill everyone. The only way to fight guerrilla warfare is with total warfare. Is it right? I say no, but I'm a pacifist. Until the two cultures are seperated, there won't be peace (and maybe not even then).

You can't forget that Palestinians ARE the enemy of Israel. They are commited to taking back the "holy land".

[orbsycli]

So when will these idiots realize that every square inch of earth is holy including the square inches of their brains ?

[wigglieverse]

Until the two cultures are seperated, there won't be peace (and maybe not even then).

And who is going to take responsibility for "separating" them? Is there another planet they can be taken to perhaps? Peace seems improbable, but then there is a fairly severe cultural clash --the Israelis have imported their culture from Europe (after "flavouring" it with Zionism and Judaism), and the Palestinians have their own Arab culture. They both have completely different mythologies (which imo, is the reason for much of the strife), different ideals (about certain aspects of social "engineering", for instance), and different goals -Israel wants its ancestral homeland back and wants the "bad guys" to leave, the Palestinians want the Europeans who have "invaded" to leave them alone and let them have back their land. So who "owns" it?

You can't forget that Palestinians ARE the enemy of Israel. They are commited to taking back the "holy land".

And, of course, Israelis are not the enemies of Palestinians, right (they really just want to be friends)? They just want them off their land -and it looks like they are quite prepared, even "glad", to kill any resisters to this master plan. How are Palestinians different? Enemies are enemies, it's a dance for two...

[Buffy]

So, Mr. wigglie, how would *you* answer The Jewish Question?

If one has no affection for a person or a system, one should be free to give the fullest expression to his disaffection, so long as he does not contemplate, promote, or incite to violence,
Buffy

[wigglieverse]

I don't have any solution to suggest (maybe someone else would like to have a go at this?).
Perhaps the solution was to not "create" the modern state of Israel (by scribbling on a bit of paper) in the first place. This happened because everyone thought this would "rescue" the (European) Jews from their despair, and they deserved to have their own country, since they hadn't had one since the Romans. Certainly it seemed like a good idea.
But it pretty much completely ignored the fact that Palestinians were living there too. Obviously this hasn't been a big concern for Israel (except for the resulting resistance), who seem be content (apart from occasional setbacks) to keep "removing" them.
But since it's a bit late to undo the making of Israel (the Arab curse), the world now must deal with the consequences of what was (the Balfour Declaration) essentially a license to take land off the Arabs (which the Israelis didn't have to wait long for an excuse to start doing -the result being 40-something years of dispossessed Palestinians in refugee camps within the borders of neighbouring Arab countries). Israel, naturally, does not want these "enemies" to return, so they remain stateless and ignored by the rest of the world -why should we care about a bunch of Arabs who want to kill us all?

[Buffy]

Originally Posted by wigglieverse

I don't have any solution to suggest (maybe someone else would like to have a go at this?).

This in combination with your oh-so-slightly-biased incitement to riot in the first post makes your thread here what we call on the Internet, "Troll-bait" and it is not appreciated.

You're obviously just trying to start a long-winded pointless argument in which you will call every counterpoint "biased" or "lies."

Please, we have better things to do.

Lead, follow or get out of the way,
Buffy

[wigglieverse]

it is not appreciated.

Not by yourself anyway, that's kind of obvious.

we have better things to do.

Like what? Posting inane comments?

Lead, follow or get out of the way

Beep! Beep! You're in my way, you <removed> you.

Does this mean because a Moderator is upset that I should stop posting stuff about oppression, hatred, and all that other nasty stuff (which no-one wants to talk about)?
Or is it because Americans basically don't really give a monkey's either? So I should just crawl back under my bridge...