Does Bush want japan to revoke article 9 and Re-arm? (International politics)

[Michaelangelica]

There seems to be a movement, nationally and Internationally, to re-write Japanese history and for it to re-arm.
History Under Siege: Battles over the past - Japan

Article 9
Last Monday, the government presented preliminary plans to change the Constitution’s Article 9 that was written in the wake of World War II. It says:

Adding to the noisy jostle of conflicting positions over history in Japan are a powerful group of neo-nationalists, who claim that the country's post-war incarnation, including its pacifist constitution, has led to a sense of national self-loathing and a crisis in identity. The struggle over interpretation of the country's 20th century history has become the battleground for these differing ideologies of nationhood.

History Under Siege: Battles over the past - Japan

i half listened to this first of afour part radio series today

History under siege: battles over the past surveys the tensions and debates around history, identity and contemporary society in four countries around the world. It features interviews with historians, as well as oral history and testimony, and archival material.

Streaming and download audio for each program in the series will be available on this website, along with image galleries, extra audio for download, bibliographies and further information links.

ABC Radio National - Hindsight - History Under Siege: Battles over the past

eraldine Doogue: Now the wider context of all of this is that the peace movement in Japan as a whole, is feeling under threat because of the ruling party’s desire to change the Constitution, to allow Japan to take a more active role in world affairs. So could you give us the background to that; what exactly do they want to change?

Yuki Tanaka: Well Article 9 is called Renunciation of War. So the LBP wants to amend or abolish this paragraph so that the Japanese can freely participate in the joint military exercise with the United States, Australia and Britain.
. . .
Yuki Tanaka: Well you see, if this constitution is changed, actually on Monday the LDP issues the plan, a draft for the new Constitution. The renunciation of war will be dropped, and instead they will use security, so that the title of the chapter is called ‘Security’, and they’ll also introduce the self-defence military, not self-defence forces, and they will drop the phrase paragraph 2, as I said, ‘the land, sea and air forces as well as other war potential, will never be maintained’, this will be out. And they will introduce the new paragraph so that Japan could officially have their own military forces and they’ll also specify in the Constitution that they will contribute the international operations.
. . .
Yuki Tanaka: Yes, there is a certain such voice from the Japanese community, but on the other hand, the Japanese also want to maintain Article 9. So we don’t mind setting up the international UN forces, but we want to maintain Article 9. I think that’s the general feeling of the Japanese population.

Geraldine Doogue: What, as a symbol of what’s possible in world affairs?

Yuki Tanaka: No, no, actually Article 9, although Article 9 was watered down in actual fact, but it functioned as a constraint not to engage in the major war. And in the last 60 years, Japanese never killed foreigners in conflict. This is the record. Somehow we have to show the examples of the pacifist cause to the rest of the world. For example, if I said we had to stick to Article 9, abolish even the existing forces, then people say, ‘You are unrealistic’. But what is the reality? Look at the reality of what happened in the last 100 years. Every nation said, We have the right to defend our nations’, and they went into war. And in the last 100 years, billions of people died, as a result of this war. And so I think it’s good to have just one nation which has no military forces, and say, ‘This is the way that we have to move’.

Geraldine Doogue: OK, an unapologetic Professor Yuki Tanaka, thank you very much indeed from the Hiroshima Peace Institute, with his particular take on these historic events.

Now today’s anniversary is the precursor of course to the big one in nine days’ time, on Monday, August 15th, what’s now known as VP Day, Victory in the Pacific. And it commemorates the day when the Japanese surrendered unconditionally, 60 years ago, and the catastrophe that was World War II was finally over.

Hidden Horrors: Japanese War Crimes in WWII
Author: Yuki Tanaka, Yuki
Publisher: Westview Press 1996

Japan's Comfort Women: Sexual slavery and prostitution during World War II and the US occupation
Author: Yuki Tanaka
Publisher: Routledge, London and New York 2002

Radio National - Saturday Breakfast With Geraldine Doogue 06/08/2005

When I was a kid I was watching a TV show with my dad on Japanese war crimes. He served in the pacific in Borneo.
I made some comment about how terrible the "japs" were.
My Dad turned on me with a chilling cold voice which still gives me goose bumps and said;-
"Don't you EVER talk to me about what they did to us in the War - because we did just as bad back!"
I was stunned. The moment is still seared in my memory. Nothing more was ever said.
After he died I found out that he had had to bury (literally) his whole platoon in the Borneo jungles.

[nutronjon]

Your father was a very unusual person. He was a man of great honor, to be so honest about war. In my book, this makes him a far greater man the Alexander or Peter or the rest of the war leaders we call Great.

Reading what you posted, I got no knowledge of Bush's take on the Japanese constitution. My guess is, because Japan is a very important trading partner to the US, and other capitalist allies, and oil is essential to industrial economies, and the US wants oil, but not the cost of securing oil militarily, it is in the best interest of the US if Japan pick up the expense of using military force to secure the supply of oil.

I think we need to keep in mind, the reason Japan boomed Pearl Harbor, was with the hopes of sinking the US navy, so the US navy could not prevent Japan from accessing oil closer to home. This was necessary for Japan, because the US embargoed oil to Japan, to stop Japan from speading its control over China's territory, which threaten British interest. At the time, Britian was a very important trade partner, and Japan was not, so the US was moved to protect Britian's interest. Without question, Japan will again go to war for oil if it has to. The alternative is unacceptable.

[Michaelangelica]

Thank you for you comment nutronjon

I read somewhere that Japan is buying 60-80 Billion dollars in Arms from the USA at the moment.

Many (maybe 50%) of Japanese want to stay neutral.
Neutrality certainly seems to have worked for the Swiss.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

There seems to be a movement, nationally and Internationally, to re-write Japanese history and for it to re-arm.
History Under Siege: Battles over the past - Japan

Article 9
Last Monday, the government presented preliminary plans to change the Constitution’s Article 9 that was written in the wake of World War II. It says:



History Under Siege: Battles over the past - Japan

i half listened to this first of afour part radio series today

ABC Radio National - Hindsight - History Under Siege: Battles over the past


Radio National - Saturday Breakfast With Geraldine Doogue 06/08/2005

When I was a kid I was watching a TV show with my dad on Japanese war crimes. He served in the pacific in Borneo.
I made some comment about how terrible the "japs" were.
My Dad turned on me with a chilling cold voice which still gives me goose bumps and said;-
"Don't you EVER talk to me about what they did to us in the War - because we did just as bad back!"
I was stunned. The moment is still seared in my memory. Nothing more was ever said.
After he died I found out that he had had to bury (literally) his whole platoon in the Borneo jungles.

Your father was speaking of his own experience and John W. Dower's book, War Without Mercy: Race and Power in the Pacific War, tells it just as he did. However, if you read Hidden Horrors: Japanese War Crimes in WWII by Yuki Tanaka, Prisoners Of The Japanese: Pows of World War II in the Pacific by Gavin Daws, and The Rape of Nanking:The Forgotten Holocaust of World War II by Iris Chang you will learn that Japan carried out a war from 1931-1945 against civilians on a scale equal to the Nazis. That is why it was called the Hidden Holocaust. I doubt the Japanese or Germans of today would behave that way.

[LaurieAG]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

There seems to be a movement, nationally and Internationally, to re-write Japanese history and for it to re-arm.

Hi Michaelangelica,

This isn't the first time something like this has happened in the past 50 years.

If you look at a translation of the German Basic Law, with ammendments, you will find whole swathes of restrictions cut out, due to the cold war.

[Theory5]

Originally Posted by nutronjon

Reading what you posted, I got no knowledge of Bush's take on the Japanese constitution. My guess is, because Japan is a very important trading partner to the US, and other capitalist allies, and oil is essential to industrial economies, and the US wants oil, but not the cost of securing oil militarily, it is in the best interest of the US if Japan pick up the expense of using military force to secure the supply of oil.

This is what is happening all over the world, and to me its ridiculous. We supply arms and bombs to factions in the middle east (who could and are labeled as terrorists) as well as other places where we think that we might get more oil if certain people get into certain places. This pathetic struggle for oil and other petroleum resources has got to stop. We can and have shown that we can make alternate or synthetic fuels sometimes for less money and the important part, MASS DISTRIBUTE THEM throughout the US economy.

And Bush has no knowledge of anything. Maybe he should read up on WW2. During WW2 Japan invaded most of china. If we let them have a standing army, another war will probably start very soon.
And I heard for a slightly credible source that Japan had some of the best soldiers in the world. Would we be one of their targets? All they have to do is promise bush some petroleum reserves and they could destroy their "enemies".
Maybe Bush should watch some videos of us trying (and eventually succeeding) to take Iwo Jima.
I'm praying that the election will hurry up and come already. :-)

[Michaelangelica]

you will learn that Japan carried out a war from 1931-1945 against civilians on a scale equal to the Nazis.

No need for a lesson freddy. You only need pictures of the skeletal soldiers & civilians returning from the Singapore collapse and internment. Many lived on grass..
Their treatment was horrific and many Australians do not forget.

But then in post Hiroshima & Nagasaki we need some forgiveness on both sides so we can move on.

One problem is Japan has never really acknowledged its war crimes in Korea, China and SE Asia.
Without some realistic interpretation of their history; how can they intelligently make a decision to re-arm?

I believe the Japanese are buying 60-80 billion in arms from the USA this year.

[Kriminal99]

Article 9 seems poorly worded, the threat of force is absolutely necessary in international politics. Fairness is based on a balance of powers, if Japan has no power everyone can just walk all over them and will without thinking twice about it.

[Theory5]

Originally Posted by Kriminal99

Article 9 seems poorly worded, the threat of force is absolutely necessary in international politics. Fairness is based on a balance of powers, if Japan has no power everyone can just walk all over them and will without thinking twice about it.

I'm pretty sure that has not happened anytime after article 9 was written.

"ARTICLE 9. Aspiring sincerely to an international peace based on justice and order, the Japanese people forever renounce war as a sovereign right of the nation and the threat or use of force as means of settling international disputes. (2) In order to accomplish the aim of the preceding paragraph, land, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained. The right of belligerency of the state will not be recognized."

Japan is however allowed to have a peace keeping force:
[quote]The Japan Self-Defense Forces numbered 239,430 in 2005 with 147,737 in the Ground Self-Defense Force, 44,327 in the Maritime Self-Defense Force, 45,517 in the Air Self-Defense Force, and 1,849 in the Joint Staff Office. Reserves numbered 57,899.[quote]
hence, they may never have an aggressive army or engage in any type of invasion or offensive operations.

[nutronjon]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

No need for a lesson freddy. You only need pictures of the skeletal soldiers & civilians returning from the Singapore collapse and internment. Many lived on grass..
Their treatment was horrific and many Australians do not forget.

But then in post Hiroshima & Nagasaki we need some forgiveness on both sides so we can move on.

One problem is Japan has never really acknowledged its war crimes in Korea, China and SE Asia.
Without some realistic interpretation of their history; how can they intelligently make a decision to re-arm?

I believe the Japanese are buying 60-80 billion in arms from the USA this year.

Darling, who on earth has owned up to their crimes against humanity? The whole of mankind needs a new consciousness, and this is made possible through the Internet and all forms of mass communication. We need a new religion that can replace the old religions of the God of Abraham that can unite the world as it has never before been united. I am not sure the corporate religion of which John Kenneth Galbraith speaks is the solution, but it is an important part of the solution. We really must do a huge consciousness shift, that condemns Bush's bombing of Iraq, as much as the Germany's and Japan's war crimes are condemned, and we must condemn, all religiously motivated slaughter of humanity, from the Cursades and across the American continents, now turning back to the mid east.

Theory5, my favorite book is "Mineral Resources and the Distinies of Nations". My efforts to stimulate a discussion of resources and economics have fallen flat. If we want to understand the world today, we must begin with knowledge of where the resources are, and the patterns of their consumption.

Books about technology society, and how different they are from agrigarian socieites, are also helpful in understanding today's reality.

John Kenneth Galbraith, wrote "The Age of Uncertainity" another book that can help us understand today's reality. He draws a parallel between the old religious prisisthood and the modern prisethood of corporate culture. In the past the Pope could mobilize large armies and send them to the holy land. Today, it is large coorperations and the armies of nations, that seek to dominate the world. May God have mercy on the non believers.

Japan is a believer, but those troublesome Muslims, and some Asians, are resisting the march of time and global transition. China has invested heavily on this transition, and is bringing an end to the old way of life. On the other hand, the corporate power and glory is dependent on finite resources. Finite- as in limited. The whole world can not enjoy the life style of the US, so what is left to the rest of world, but family and faith in God? We absolutely must think these things through and come up with a better plan, than past conquest and conquer, that was barbaric power conflicts, even when done with high tech armies, as we can not afford these conflicts in today's world.