Is the United States ready for a President who speaks to the populace like adults?

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by C1ay

Yes, the Constitution conveyed no citizenship rights until the Bill Of Amendments. There were laws passed by the legislature concerning the citizenship of immigrants but they did not come from the Constitution and they granted no rights. They also conflicted with the various state laws which was the root of the problem with slavery. That's why the 14th Amendment explicitly granted federal citizenship to the citizens of the states. Prior to this slaves were only considered 2/3 a man and they had no rights.

Article I: The Legislative Branch
Section 8: The Powers of Congress
Clause 4: To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization

Clearly the naturalization laws of 1790, 1795, 1798, and 1802 were allowed by the above power given to Congress by the Constitution.

[C1ay]

I'm not saying people couldn't become citizens, I'm saying the Constitution gave them no rights. All of the people's rights were in the hands of the state governments until the Bill Of Rights was added. The lack of a bill of rights was one of the key reasons that several delegates refused to sign the Constitution at the Constitutional Convention.

[CraigD]

As Reason notes in post #40 the apportionment of US electors is closer to the based-on-population apportionment of members of Congress’s House of Representatives than the 2-per-state of its Senate. It’s actually based on the sum of each state’s Senators and Representatives, except that DC, which has no senators and one non-voting representative, nonetheless gets 3 electors. The individual state legislatures, and, for DC, Congress, determines how the slate of electors are chosen. In all but Maine (4 electors) and Nebraska (5), have some form of “winner-takes-all”, where the candidate who wins the popular vote, or the greatest number of nearly equal-population districts, wins all the electors.

The history, purpose, strengths, weaknesses, and fairness of this scheme is a complicated, lengthy and controversial subject. However, with a few simplifying assumptions, one can pretty easily make a non-trivial game of it, like this:

• Each player (candidate) has a given amount of money
• The probability of winning one representative worth of votes (about 5,000, at typical recent voter turnouts) is proportional to the money spent in its state
• Ties are decided randomly (“coin toss”)
• The candidate winning the most districts is assumed to also have won the statewide vote
• The actual elector selecting rules (winner-take-all or proportional) for each state apply

This is a “limited knowledge” game – if one player knows the other’s spending of his money, he has a great advantage. There are, therefore, several fair ways to play the game:

• Players allocate their money simultaneously
• Players allocate their money in a series of turns, either simultaneous or staggered

Here’re a few plays of the game, with trivial money allocations. In the first plays, all players allocate $1 to each state, so the election outcome is random. In the second, player 2 (“cand 2”) has twice as much money as 1, and both allocate it evenly as before:

State Abbrs: AL AK AZ AR CA CO CT DC DE FL GA HI ID IL IN IA KS KY LA ME MD MA MI MN MS MO MT NE NV NH NJ NM NY NC ND OH OK OR PA RI SC SD TN TX UT VT VA WA WV WI WY
# of Reps:   7  1  8  4  53 7  5  1  1  25 13 2  2  19 9  5  4  6  7  2* 8  10 15 8  4  9  1  3* 3  2  13 3  29 13 1  18 5  5  19 2  6  1  9  32 3  1  11 9  3  8  1

Cand 1 :   1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1
Cand 2 :   1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1

1 wins:      2  1* 4* 2* 15 2  3* 1* 1* 16*4  2* 1* 13*5* 3* 2* 2  2  1* 5* 8* 5  2  1  4  0  3* 3* 1* 6  1  15*4  0  6  4* 1  13*2* 4* 0  7* 13 1  1* 5  6* 1  2  1* 
2 wins:      5* 0  4  2  38*5* 2  0  0  9  9* 0  1  6  4  2  2  4* 5* 1  3  2  10*6* 3* 5* 1* 0  0  1  7* 2* 14 9* 1* 12*1  4* 6  0  2  1* 2  19*2* 0  6* 3  2* 6* 0  
Wins: 207 229*  States: 28 23  Electors: 250 288*  

1 wins:      4* 1* 2  2  28*2  4* 1* 1* 18*5  2* 1  13*5* 3* 3* 3* 3  0  4* 6* 4  3  1  3  1* 1  1  1  4  3* 12 8* 0  10*3* 2  13*1  3* 0  2  20*1  1* 4  6* 1  4  1* 
2 wins:      3  0  6* 2* 25 5* 1  0  0  7  8* 0  1* 6  4  2  1  3  4* 2* 4  4  11*5* 3* 6* 0  2* 2* 1* 9* 0  17*5  1* 8  2  3* 6  1* 3  1* 7* 12 2* 0  7* 3  2* 4* 0  
Wins: 225* 211  States: 26 25  Electors: 317* 221  

1 wins:      2  1* 3  2* 33*2  4* 1* 1* 11 3  0  0  10*7* 3* 2* 1  4* 2* 2  5* 6  5* 3* 4  1* 2* 2* 0  8* 2* 15*7* 1* 10*4* 2  9  2* 3  1* 4  17*2* 1* 4  6* 1  4* 1* 
2 wins:      5* 0  5* 2  20 5* 1  0  0  14*10*2* 2* 9  2  2  2  5* 3  0  6* 5  9* 3  1  5* 0  1  1  2* 5  1  14 6  0  8  1  3* 10*0  3* 0  5* 15 1  0  7* 3  2* 4  0  
Wins: 226* 210  States: 33 18  Electors: 344* 194  

...

1 wins:      2  0  3  3* 28*3  1  1* 0  10 8* 2* 2* 11*6* 3* 1  2  1  1* 3  4  8* 4* 1  6* 0  1  3* 1  4  2* 16*5  1* 6  5* 3* 10*1  4* 1* 1  5  1  1* 6* 2  2* 4  1* 
2 wins:      5* 1* 5* 1  25 4* 4* 0  1* 15*5  0  0  8  3  2  3* 4* 6* 1  5* 6* 7  4  3* 3  1* 2* 0  1* 9* 1  13 8* 0  12*0  2  9  1* 2  0  8* 27*2* 0  5  7* 1  4* 0  
Wins: 200 236*  States: 26 25  Electors: 282* 256  

Cand 1 :   1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1
Cand 2 :   2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2

1 wins:      2  0  5* 2* 21 3  3* 1* 1* 9  5  0  0  4  2  2  2  2  4* 1* 2  3  5  3  1  4  0  0  2* 1* 1  1  13 3  1* 6  2  1  3  0  4* 0  2  10 0  1* 4  1  0  1  1* 
2 wins:      5* 1* 3  2  32*4* 2  0  0  16*8* 2* 2* 15*7* 3* 2* 4* 3  1  6* 7* 10*5* 3* 5* 1* 3* 1  1  12*2* 16*10*0  12*3* 4* 16*2* 2  1* 7* 22*3* 0  7* 8* 3* 7* 0  
Wins: 145 291*  States: 13 38  Electors: 67 471*

1 wins:      1  0  1  1  20 1  0  0  1* 5  2  1  0  5  5* 1  1  3* 1  1  4* 3  6  4  2* 1  0  0  1  1  5  1  9  8* 1* 8  3* 1  3  0  3* 0  0  12 1  0  3  3  1  2  1* 
2 wins:      6* 1* 7* 3* 33*6* 5* 1* 0  20*11*1* 2* 14*4  4* 3* 3  6* 1* 4  7* 9* 4* 2  8* 1* 3* 2* 1* 8* 2* 20*5  0  10*2  4* 16*2* 3  1* 9* 20*2* 1* 8* 6* 2* 6* 0  
Wins: 137 299*  States: 10 41  Electors: 75 463*

1 wins:      4* 0  2  1  17 4* 3* 0  0  5  3  1* 1* 8  1  1  1  2  1  0  4* 1  4  4  1  2  0  1  1  1  5  2* 8  5  1* 5  1  2  3  1* 2  0  3  14 1  0  1  2  2* 2  1* 
2 wins:      3  1* 6* 3* 36*3  2  1* 1* 20*10*1  1  11*8* 4* 3* 4* 6* 2* 4  9* 11*4* 3* 7* 1* 2* 2* 1* 8* 1  21*8* 0  13*4* 3* 16*1  4* 1* 6* 18*2* 1* 10*7* 1  6* 0  
Wins: 135 301*  States: 11 40  Electors: 64 474*

1 wins:      1  0  4  1  15 3  2  0  0  9  3  0  0  7  2  0  0  5* 2  0  3  7* 4  1  3* 3  1* 2* 0  1* 6  2* 13 2  1* 8  2  3* 5  1* 0  0  1  6  1  0  6* 2  1  3  1* 
2 wins:      6* 1* 4* 3* 38*4* 3* 1* 1* 16*10*2* 2* 12*7* 5* 4* 1  5* 2* 5* 3  11*7* 1  6* 0  1  3* 1  7* 1  16*11*0  10*3* 2  14*1  6* 1* 8* 26*2* 1* 5  7* 2* 5* 0  
Wins: 143 293*  States: 12 39  Electors: 72 466*

If anyone is interested in trying the game, we can start a thread for it, using PMs if several people want to play completive keeping their allocation secret, or in the open for playing against oneself or using a honor or rounds system.

The number of states and elector rules can, of course, be tweaked as desired.

For people with a MUMPS interpreter, here’s the code that produces the above (slightly cleaned up) output:

f  r R q:'(R)  s I=((R,";",(R,";")),":") i (I) s @I=R ;XRX: read xecute code
n (XGEC) x XGEC(1),XGEC(3) f  x XGEC(4),XGEC(6),XGEC(5) r "  Repeat? NO/ ",R,! q:(R,"no","NO")?1(1"",1"N".1"O") ;XGEC: The electoral college game
n (XGEC,SA,SR,AE) r "State Abbrs: ",R,! x XGEC(2) s SA=R r "# of Reps:   ",R,! x XGEC(2) s SR=R r "# Senators:  ",AE,! ;XGEC(1)
n (XGEC,R) x XGEC(2,1),XGEC(2,2) ;XGEC(2)
s R=(R,":",(R,":")) f  q:R'["  "  s (R,"  ",1,2)=(R,"  ")_" "_(R,"  ",2) ;XGEC(2,1)
s:(R)=" " (R)="" s:(R,(R))=" " (R,(R))="" ;XGEC(2,2)
n (XGEC,MS) k MS f I=1:1 w "Cand ",I," :",?13 r R,! q:R=""  x XGEC(2) s MS(I)=R ;XGEC(3)
n (XGEC,W,WV,WS,SR,AE,MS) x XGEC(4,1),XGEC(4,2) ;XGEC(4): determine winner
n (T,SR,MS) s T="" f J=1:1:(SR," ") f I=1:1:(MS(""),-1) s (T," ",J)=(MS(I)," ",J)+(T," ",J) ;XGEC(4,1): total MS(I)
n (XGEC,W,WV,WS,SR,AE,MS,T) k WV s (W,WV,WS)="" f J=1:1:(SR," ") x XGEC(4,2,1),XGEC(4,2,2) s SRJ=(SR," ",J),(WS," ",IW)=(WS," ",IW)+1 x XGEC(4,3,(SRJ["*":2,1:1)) ;XGEC(4,2)
n (SR,WJ,WV,MS,T,J) s WJ="" f K=1:1:(SR," ",J) s R=((T," ",J)) f I=1:1:(MS(""),-1) s R=R-(MS(I)," ",J) i R<0 s (WJ," ",I)=(WJ," ",I)+1,(WV," ",I)=(WV," ",I)+1,(WV(I)," ",J)=((WV(I))," ",J)+1 q ;XGEC(4,2,1)
n (XGEC,WJ,J,WV,IW) x XGEC(4,2,2,1) s (IW)="",IW=(IW," ",((IW," "))+1),(WV(IW)," ",J)=(WV(IW)," ",J)_"*" ;XGEC(4,2,2): find top I
s (M,IW)="" f I=1:1:(WJ," ") s N=(WJ," ",I) s:N>M IW="",M=N s:M=N IW=IW_" "_I ;XGEC(4,2,2,1)
s (W," ",IW)=(W," ",IW)+SRJ+AE ;XGEC(4,3,1): winner take all allocation method
s (W," ",IW)=(W," ",IW)+AE f I=1:1:(WJ," ") s (W," ",I)=(W," ",I)+(WJ," ",I) ;XGEC(4,3,2): congressional district allocation method
n (XGEC,W,WV,WS) s R=W x XGEC(5,1),XGEC(5,2) s W=R,R=WV x XGEC(5,1),XGEC(5,2) s WV=R w "Wins: ",WV,"  States: ",WS,"  Electors: ",W ;XGEC(5): mark winners
s (M,IW)="" f I=1:1:(R," ") s N=(R," ",I) s:N>M M=N,IW="" s:N=M IW=IW_" "_I ;XGEC(5,1)
f J=2:1:(IW) s I=(IW," ",I),(R," ",I)=(R," ",I)_"*" ;XGEC(5,2)
n (SA,MS,WV) f I=1:1:(MS(""),-1) s NN=(WV(I)) w I," wins: ",?13 f J=1:1 s L=((SA," ",J))+1,N=(NN," ",J),(N,"*")=+N w (N_("",L),1,L) i J=(SA," ") w ! q ;XGEC(6): display wins by state

x XGEC