Consensus in Politics

[questor]

Moontan, do you have children? Would your family agree with you on this:
''Questor you really don't get it do you? all the stuff you are afraid of would not happen if sex wasn't so strongly stifled in our society. these people who want to parade around and shock people like you wouldn't want to if it wasn't considered bad. As for all the porn it is a symptom of a repressed society, sex is so popular because it is suppressed. It's also the reason sexual images of the young and beautiful are so popular in every aspect of our society. You don't see that stuff in naturist communities, no one is interested. But no i don't think that everyone should go naked I just think that concentrating so much effort into preventing it causes it.''
Is it possible people could still have a normal sexual life if we didn't have people parading around naked? The basic question is: what is the good of it?
does it improve society? Is it good for kids? Couldn't it just as easily be done in private?

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by questor

Your post#96 is an agreeable one quite at odds with some other things you have written. The reason our country is split is because one group is consistently trying to even the playing field by taking earned income from those more successful. the achievers resent the constant reduction of their earnings to support those who choose not to work. One group thinks they deserve a larger piece of the pie, but will not do the things neccessary to EARN it. The other group wants to work in peace and provide for their family.
Government is coercive and punishes the achiever. It gives to the non-achiever and demands nothing back from him. This is not a win-win situation, it is unfair. It is one thing to give from the charity of your heart, it is quite another to have it confiscated.

I think you are over simplifying the problem, I've been up and down in my life more than a couple of times. I've clawed my my way back up and the people at the top are not always exactly helpful. Many always assume if you are down you deserve it and that you are a a parasite. Most people who are down are not there due to lack of trying, some started out way down and the climb up is a lot harder than many at the top think. Just because someone is bastard enough to walk over every one else to make it to the top doesn't mean he deserves it any more than someone who has really worked hard their whole life just to have it swept away time and time again due to circumstances beyond their control. To assume anyone who is not successful is some how deserving of that plight or that they haven't tried is just so wrong and doesn't speak well for the person who assumes the road to the top is easy just because it was for them.

[Galapagos]

Originally Posted by questor

Will this planet be better when people parade naked down the streets with pierced nipples, tattoos, and other adornments. When people are making out in public? Tell me how this improves society?

It won't make the place better or worse, it's a matter of cultural preference.

There are some societies in which people are naked(or nearly naked), and others in which people cover themselves with tatoos, and it doesn't seem to be directly limiting/harming their way of life. And as for your other objections about people "making out in public"... have you ever been to Canada, or Europe? Both of these places are known for their social acceptance of public displays of affection, in contrast with countries like Indonesia and Saudi Arabia, where it is very much not accepted.
It's also interesting to note that much more partial nudity is allowed on television in Europe, and I think they actually try to tone down the violence(in comparison to America) more frequently(which is completely futile according to studies demonstrating no link between consumption of violent media and actual violent behavior), which is apparently the opposite strategy of the American public(condemn sexuality/nudity, allow violence).

My point is that people from different cultures have different values, and as long as they are not harmful, there isn't really anything wrong with them.

[questor]

Moontan, the people at the top don't care whether you are successful or not.
It's not that they don't like you, it's just that they are busy trying to take care of their own future. It is not their job to take care of you or me. That job belongs to the individual himself. I have had the good and the bad also, I was not born wealthy, and I don't consider myself wealthy now. I do consider myself successful in that I am happy and financially comfortable. If you look to others to make you succesful you are doomed to be a failure. You can only do it for yourself. That is one big problem for liberals, they want you to believe that the government will steal money from those greedy bastards and give it to you. What a way to live your life, on some one else's earnings. Why do you live in a small town?

[REASON]

Sure seems tough to find consensus in politics, huh questor? Particularly when people are sticking to their guns and demonizing those with different points of view. This thread serves as a good example of the problems we are experiencing in our society today. Polarization continues to be a significant barrier to finding a consensus.

I think a big part of the problem is that people tend to isolate themselves in a particular mindset and steer information to support their particular point of view. And there are plenty of information peddlers out there to feed it. It becomes necessary and is taught to highlight the differences among us and take a stand against those who are not like us. People are going out of their way to put a microscope on every variation from their established norm, and failing to consider the ways in which we are alike and can find common ground in an effort to establish respect and consideration for one another.

I believe that those who lock themselves in a onesided mentality, seeking only to rally support around an ideology with the intent to demonize people with different beliefs or cultures, are out of balance, and are contrary to any notion of finding a consensus among the populus toward the betterment of society, whether relating to politics or any other controversial topic.

If I were to believe that the path to consensus among people in a civilized society is either my way or the highway, then I would be an arrogant and ignorant fool.

[Zythryn]

Very well said Reason, I'd rep you if I could

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by questor

Moontan, do you have children? Would your family agree with you on this:
''Questor you really don't get it do you? all the stuff you are afraid of would not happen if sex wasn't so strongly stifled in our society. these people who want to parade around and shock people like you wouldn't want to if it wasn't considered bad. As for all the porn it is a symptom of a repressed society, sex is so popular because it is suppressed. It's also the reason sexual images of the young and beautiful are so popular in every aspect of our society. You don't see that stuff in naturist communities, no one is interested. But no i don't think that everyone should go naked I just think that concentrating so much effort into preventing it causes it.''
Is it possible people could still have a normal sexual life if we didn't have people parading around naked? The basic question is: what is the good of it?
does it improve society? Is it good for kids? Couldn't it just as easily be done in private?

Yes my immediate family would agree with me, I also have children, and who are you to assume you know what a normal sexual life is? Normal is what is normal to you and your cultural norms. what i am trying to get across to you is there are other ways to live and they are not bad or good just different. We on the other hand tend to send mixed signals to our own people about sex. we tell our children not to have sex but we allow the glorification of both sex and youth and bombard our whole society with these images. then we get upset when sex breaks out of the boundaries we set. Sex is not unnatural, nudity is not unnatural. suppression of both is unnatural and the conflicting messages we send in our society are actually harmful. Nudity is no big deal, no one is injured by nudity but suppression of nudity and the sale of nudity as a means to sell everything from food to autos is bad. If we were more accepting of nudity and didn't make a big deal of it then it would be more difficult to use in ways the hurt our society. suppression of sexuality is always a bad thing, we are sexual beings, the US is more repressive sexually than most cultures, some or more suppressive and those cultures are usually where women are abused the most. The things we use to suppress our sexuality actually cause it to stand out even more than it would if we didn't try to hide our bodies and our need for sex. Nudity, real nudity and not the stylized stuff marketed to us by magazines and other media sources is not sexy. Only by hiding behind reveling clothing can most people maintain the illusions of sexy. Our idea of sexuality is based on lies and illusion, is not wonder it causes us so much trouble when we must confront it directly?

[questor]

Moontan, you seem to have a fixation on sex. You must think about it a lot. I don't think contemplating and wishing for nudity furthers one's business opprtunities. The norms of our society require we wear clothes. I accept that and don't worry myself about it. The time spent each day thinking about nudity could definitely be put to better use. Since most of our citizens are overweight, I see little beauty in excess flab, hairiness, warts, and other
signs of physical imperfection. Go to the mall, look at the people, ask yourself if you would like to see this crowd without clothes.

[questor]

Reason, you're correct in much of what you say. Maybe now you're getting a glimmer of understanding about brain wiring. Maybe as you mature your ideas will change. My idea of a good society is one where people have self reliance, decency, good morals, good taste in music, literature, discipline in their daily activities, and a desire for education and to contribute to society. I don't see much of this today.

[Zythryn]

Originally Posted by questor

Reason, you're correct in much of what you say. Maybe now you're getting a glimmer of understanding about brain wiring. Maybe as you mature your ideas will change.

Emphasis added by me.
Questor, if the way we think is controled by our 'wiring' (and not the other way around) how is it you think the way Reason thinks will change?