What's Russia's game plan?

[paigetheoracle]

Originally Posted by alexander

You silly, rules don't put you in jail in Russia, people that don't like you do. For every two criminals convicted for a fair reason, one is convicted because there were no other people to convict, even though they didn't do it, and the detective is wrong, and one more is convicted because it is either beneficial to someone else, who has higher ties, or because you were in a wrong place blocking something or someone, or just because they don't like you, or you or the other guy made a mistake, but once again, have high ranking friends... And Russian jails are hard to rival in the severity of life in them, and survivalness... Though no other country beats US in the amount of criminals incarcerated per capita.


Certainly not without that, but it still fits under the principals of democracy, some democratic principals, not all of them though, and some do include "freedom" of religion, though that freedom has been long gone, there is freedom of religion, there is still little freedom from religion... and we all have Truman to thank for that... and Eisenhower too...


you realize that Russia united in like 1500ds, right, when the notion of city-state was gone, and tzars assumed ultimate control... by 1530s, Ivan's time, if you did not follow tzar's word, in your city, you better kill yourself, it would be less painful... And no, the voting system in city-states was not what US will later use, people assembled on a square, and disputed who they wanted to rule, then the Boyars and influential men voted, and decided who rules...


What, a prospering nation with a 6.1% annual economic growth, annual growth in export of, grain, metallurgy, machinery, chemical products; building first factories, and getting production process prices down so much that it cost 1/2 as much to make weapons in 1944, as it did in 1941, centralizing farming, building transportation systems, investing heavily into science, education and research centers... Don't believe people that never studied history, just because they say that "communism" ruined Russia, it does not mean that such is the case, think for yourself, don't let others tell you what you should think...


Think of him now more as of Cheney, that smart guy behind the scenes that is the true puppeteer... well sort of...

"History is Bunk" Henry Ford. The winner decides the story told. This is the basis of ethics (people lie), physical evidence in court cases and philosophy (doubt everything). People live, people die - that is the only thing you can be sure of - in between is chaos, confusion and outright lies. I know what my personal history is but those that interfaced with it may have differing opinions as to what happened and why (motives: see ethics).

[alexander]

Sorry to stir this up yet again, but i figured i shall now post my final thoughts on this conflict.

Yes this means that after countless hours of reviewing all kinds of sources of information i have at last formed an opinion, more or less.

Let's start at the start, and i don't mean what was covered by the press in the world, but the start at the beginning, time - a couple of days prior to Georgian (G) involvement in South Osetiya (SO), and t - (a couple of days + 2) to Russian (R) involvement in the G/SO conflict.

SO is a former republic of R, after their split, they held their own elections, had their own politics and partners, and like many tiny nations, did not really have a military, and mainly relied on internal police force and agencies to handle the situations. Now, about 80-90% of SO residents have some contact with North Osetiya, and they have a Russian passport as well as a SO one. Their country lives on a territory that some years ago was considered G, a part of the population is G, especially in towns that are neighboring each other, or are on the border.

T-2 days to the conflict, SO side notices upwards of a hundred busses filled with women and children leaving their towns, the homes and men are left, most of the things are left in the house, some SO suspect that G were rushed out by some order of the G side, some start suspecting something wrong.

T-1 day to conflict, G men in SO towns are assembling themselves in groups, taking out weapons they got in 2005 (there are documents saying that G gov-t gave out over a 1000 pieces of firearms to the Georgians in the SO area in 2005). At this point noone still knows what is going on.

T-3 hours to the conflict, G president assures SO safety, expresses his love for the region.

T-0, between 3 and 5am G forces move into SO. G forces are comprised of the G army trained by the US and Israeli commanders, Ukranian Hires, Latvian snipers, French, Israily and US: tanks, fighter planes, heavy artillery, air defense systems, and rapid fire missile systems, and a couple of destroyers.

Night of Aug 8, 2008, G forces reach the capital of SO and continue moving in. At this poin the death toll in SO is over a 100k, mostly civilians, mostly unarmed, mostly brutally shot and mutilated inside their own homes, unarmed. Women and children are hiding, whoever is still fighting back is being advised to give up, and to flee to NO provided a corridor, which is never provided, and anyone who takes this opportunity to flee is shot on sight by the G military. In the list of dead are 66 Russian Peace Keepers, who were working with Georgian Peace Keepers in the are to prevent what happened. Now, SO provide accounts when G peace keepers were shooting at civilians, and also at their R counterparts. If you know, killing any country's peace keeper is an international crime, a member of peace court shooting at another member, is an even bigger crime.

Morning of 08/09/08 the blood bath continues, several G cell phone videos account for the sheer brutality of the conflict, shooting nades cars that are trying to get to safety, taking down signs, killing civilians, etc, etc.

by the end of the day SO people are begging for help from anyone, and noone is coming fast, Nato's on the other side of the fence.

t after 2 days, R forces in NO move into the region to protect the R people of the SO republic, also this action is taken as a reply to the killing of peace core members. G does not have a well-trained army, thus anyone who was not a real soldier, and looking at a dyer situation in the field, many G soldiers flee the field, leaving behind us weapons, NATO food and uniform. Shortest joke in SO becomes "Georgian soldier", the international community is now made aware of Russian involvement with Georgia, the entire world piles onto the G side, as if R did something they were not supposed to, failing to look at the whole situation, US and UN proposes sanctions against R, inspite of the crimes committed by G side, post cold war AntiUSSR fanatics start gaining power, McCain finally outdoes Obama at the poles, media focuses on R move into G...

I present to you the approximate guide lines, i leave you with making your decision about this conflict.

I will only finish with this, Medvedev is viewed as a dictator by many in US, yet in the constitution of any country that has a constitution states that the president's role is to defend the lives and dignity of the people he represents, wherever they may be.....

You draw your final conclusions, i just wanted to present the other side of the argument, if it makes even one person realize just how messed up this world really is, and why so many people need to stop being self-centered ignomaniacs (maniacal ignorers), i think i did what i wanted to, with this write-up...


Think, don't let others tell you what you should or should not be believing in!


-- Alex --