Problems with Palin

[jackson33]

Theory5; In politics, every issue has two sides of any story and in politics people supporting one side will slant a version of events to meet their goals.
As for censorship in 'Public Schools', its very common and up to the local school districts whether a book meets their particular criteria or not. I don't think you feel our Federal Government actually participates in each school district decision, but if you do, they don't or in public schools can they legally.

Nitack; According to an ABC News article, based on polls; Evangelicals make up 26.3% of the American Adults. Mainline Protestants 18.1%, Catholics 23.9% and Mormons 1.7%, with all others under 1% each and they do not mention Agnostic or Atheist. The American people, at least the adults are a very Religious bunch...The history, I know you understand, tells you no less, the founders and those these people have elected National Leaders all tell me the same...In the event you have forgot or didn't read a post to you from me, I am a self proclaimed agnostic, but feel I know my place in the society and don't deny what, where, how or why this country became what it is...

As for National Trends for this election cycle, I keep *Vote From Abroad.con*
as a icon and check daily the daily changes based on all the poles. Its probably not much different than any other electoral map, but does a good job of getting all poles included. Please note however, I do NOT place much in polls, especially this far out from election day. Todays map shows McCain with 270 Electoral votes and Obama 268, where two weeks ago the spread was 120 in favor of Obama. Based on states strong, moderate or leaning toward or tied...today none tied.

Virginia, on my own system, would go McCain back to the nomination, based on heavy rural area, large military, moderate black vote and to some degree historic voting. Today Virginia dropped off the tied to Republican, with McCain 49 and Obama 47, a 20 point swing in three weeks.

Sure, Palin could lose the election, make some major gaff's or just simple decide its not worth all the fuss and go back to Alaska after the elections. However there has never been anything so dramatic happen in American Politics to explain the energy a VICE PRESIDENT nominee has brought to an election of party.

[Nitack]

I see the main problem here is that generally you vote for the Presidential candidate, but given John McCain's age and health concerns, his vice presidential choice must be more heavily considered. That is not necessarily true with Obama who is less likely to experience an issue that would prompt a vice presidential take over. It bothers me quite a bit that McCain chose a woman who is far to the right socially and has already shown the willingness to censor information that she does not agree with and tries to fire people who will not comply. She tried to pull that crap as a MAYOR of a small town, what is she capable of as the head of the entire national government?

No more federal dollars for schools whose library contains any book not deemed Christian enough?
Required teaching of intelligent design in science classes?

Had eight years of a religious zealot, not interested in another four.

Commentary: The Obama-Palin dream ticket - CNN.com

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by Nitack

I see the main problem here is that generally you vote for the Presidential candidate, but given John McCain's age and health concerns, his vice presidential choice must be more heavily considered. That is not necessarily true with Obama who is less likely to experience an issue that would prompt a vice presidential take over. It bothers me quite a bit that McCain chose a woman who is far to the right socially and has already shown the willingness to censor information that she does not agree with and tries to fire people who will not comply. She tried to pull that crap as a MAYOR of a small town, what is she capable of as the head of the entire national government?

No more federal dollars for schools whose library contains any book not deemed Christian enough?
Required teaching of intelligent design in science classes?

Had eight years of a religious zealot, not interested in another four.

Commentary: The Obama-Palin dream ticket - CNN.com

Amen Nitact, amem!

[jackson33]

Originally Posted by Nitack

I see the main problem here is that generally you vote for the Presidential candidate, but given John McCain's age and health concerns, his vice presidential choice must be more heavily considered. That is not necessarily true with Obama who is less likely to experience an issue that would prompt a vice presidential take over. It bothers me quite a bit that McCain chose a woman who is far to the right socially and has already shown the willingness to censor information that she does not agree with and tries to fire people who will not comply. She tried to pull that crap as a MAYOR of a small town, what is she capable of as the head of the entire national government?

No more federal dollars for schools whose library contains any book not deemed Christian enough?
Required teaching of intelligent design in science classes?

Had eight years of a religious zealot, not interested in another four.

Commentary: The Obama-Palin dream ticket - CNN.com

As I have indicated on several threads, my vote will go to the person I believe has access to the best political talent available. If Ms. Clinton were the nominee and chose Obama for VP, I would probably have voted for her, feeling Bill Clinton as an international ambassador could be effective, even thought I feel Obama would be a disaster for the country. If this assumption is/were wrong, he would have a year or more to prove me wrong. When McCain picked an activist reformer, which he ran on and noted as, my vote was cemented.

The Federal Government has no place in social issues of this Union, IMO at any level. On Education they actually have none and any influence (minimal) is coerced. The few grants given to STATES, not the school district, goes into State General funds, at best 2% of their Educational Budgets. Palin as a member of the PTA, Mayor of a small town was acting and doing exactly what every person on any School Board, or parent in any small town is or should be obligated to do. I sure don't want any School board of NYC, Detroit or any urban area, influences my small town and suspect no one in any other than that town would tolerate such intervention.

Your comments on Bush, probably goes to 'Faith Based Incentives', which if anything goes against 'Evangelic' principles. They are directed at every humanitarian or benevolence oriented organization, to do what THEY desire for their community and the impoverished in their area. FDR in his one National 6 minute prayer (over National Radio) on D-Day 1944, makes anything Bush EVER HAS DONE seem like mild comments on personal beliefs.

As I and others have indicated, people should pride themselves on achievement and should personally pursue those possibilities. Think there have been four personal stories, where one person has to some degree come from nothing to something, w/o government. I might add not one mention of some faith being mentioned. Ms. Palin, has demonstrated to millions that even a woman in this 'all boys' country of political power, can possibly achieve the ultimate or second ultimate job in her chosen field, politics. She has managed this with her own authentic personality, which happens to be the same as most Americans, whether I agree in total or not.

[Buffy]

Oh my, we can certainly expect someone who is incredibly frugal with state funds and horridly opposed to cronyism and corruption!

From yesterday's New York Times:

Originally Posted by Once Elected, Palin Hired Friends and Lashed Foes, JO BECKER, PETER S. GOODMAN and MICHAEL POWELL, 9/13/08

when there was a vacancy at the top of the State Division of Agriculture, she appointed a high school classmate, Franci Havemeister, to the $95,000-a-year directorship. A former real estate agent, Ms. Havemeister cited her childhood love of cows as a qualification for running the roughly $2 million agency.

Ms. Havemeister was one of at least five schoolmates Ms. Palin hired, often at salaries far exceeding their private sector wages.

...an examination of her swift rise and record as mayor of Wasilla and then governor finds that her visceral style and penchant for attacking critics — she sometimes calls local opponents “haters” — contrasts with her carefully crafted public image.

Throughout her political career, she has pursued vendettas, fired officials who crossed her and sometimes blurred the line between government and personal grievance, according to a review of public records and interviews with 60 Republican and Democratic legislators and local officials.

And would bear no resemblance to the Bush administration! Its Change!

Originally Posted by Ibid.

Ms. Palin runs an administration that puts a premium on loyalty and secrecy. The governor and her top officials sometimes use personal e-mail accounts for state business; dozens of e-mail messages obtained by The New York Times show that her staff members studied whether that could allow them to circumvent subpoenas seeking public records.

Rick Steiner, a University of Alaska professor, sought the e-mail messages of state scientists who had examined the effect of global warming on polar bears. (Ms. Palin said the scientists had found no ill effects, and she has sued the federal government to block the listing of the bears as endangered.) An administration official told Mr. Steiner that his request would cost $468,784 to process.

When Mr. Steiner finally obtained the e-mail messages — through a federal records request — he discovered that state scientists had in fact agreed that the bears were in danger...
...
In 1997, Ms. Palin fired the longtime city attorney, Richard Deuser, after he issued the stop-work order on a home being built by Don Showers, another of her campaign supporters.

Your attorney, Mr. Showers told Ms. Palin, is costing me lots of money.

“She told me she’d like to see him fired,” Mr. Showers recalled. “But she couldn’t do it herself because the City Council hires the city attorney.” Ms. Palin told him to write the council members to complain.

Meanwhile, Ms. Palin pushed the issue from the inside. “She started the ball rolling,” said Ms. Patrick, who also favored the firing. Mr. Deuser was soon replaced by Ken Jacobus, then the State Republican Party’s general counsel.
....
Half a century after Alaska became a state, Ms. Palin was inaugurated as governor in Fairbanks and took up the reformer’s sword.

As she assembled her cabinet and made other state appointments, those with insider credentials were now on the outs. But a new pattern became clear. She surrounded herself with people she has known since grade school and members of her church.
...
Ms. Palin chose Talis Colberg, a borough assemblyman from the Matanuska valley, as her attorney general, provoking a bewildered question from the legal community: “Who?” Mr. Colberg, who did not return calls, moved from a one-room building in the valley to one of the most powerful offices in the state, supervising some 500 people.

“I called him and asked, ‘Do you know how to supervise people?’ ” said a family friend, Kathy Wells. “He said, ‘No, but I think I’ll get some help.’ ”

The Wasilla High School yearbook archive now doubles as a veritable directory of state government. Ms. Palin appointed Mr. Bitney, her former junior high school band-mate, as her legislative director and chose another classmate, Joe Austerman, to manage the economic development office for $82,908 a year. Mr. Austerman had established an Alaska franchise for Mailboxes Etc.
...
....lawmakers in April accused her of improperly culling thousands of e-mail addresses from a state database for a mass mailing to rally support for a policy initiative.
...
Many lawmakers contend that Ms. Palin is overly reliant on a small inner circle that leaves her isolated. Democrats and Republicans alike describe her as often missing in action. Since taking office in 2007, Ms. Palin has spent 312 nights at her Wasilla home, some 600 miles to the north of the governor’s mansion in Juneau, records show.

During the last legislative session, some lawmakers became so frustrated with her absences that they took to wearing “Where’s Sarah?” pins.

Many politicians say they typically learn of her initiatives — and vetoes — from news releases.
...
At an Alaska Municipal League gathering in Juneau in January, mayors across the political spectrum swapped stories of the governor’s remoteness. How many of you, someone asked, have tried to meet with her? Every hand went up, recalled Mayor Fred Shields of Haines Borough. And how many met with her? Just a few hands rose. Ms. Palin soon walked in, delivered a few remarks and left for an anti-abortion rally.

The administration’s e-mail correspondence reveals a siege-like atmosphere. Top aides keep score, demean enemies and gloat over successes. Even some who helped engineer her rise have felt her wrath.

Dan Fagan, a prominent conservative radio host and longtime friend of Ms. Palin, urged his listeners to vote for her in 2006. But when he took her to task for raising taxes on oil companies, he said, he found himself branded a “hater.”

It is part of a pattern, Mr. Fagan said, in which Ms. Palin characterizes critics as “bad people who are anti-Alaska.”

Oh and her "80% popularity in Alaska rating?" Take a look at this...

Originally Posted by Anti-Palin activists stage their own rally, Sean Cockerham, Anchorage Daily News, 9/14/08

"Sarah Palin frightens the hell out of me. I don't want her anywhere near the White House," said Marybeth Holleman of Anchorage.

But all work and no play is boring, so on a lighter note...

Originally Posted by Tina Fey & Amy Poehler as Sarah and Hillary, Saturday Night Live, 9/13/08

PALIN: Good evening, my fellow Americans. I was so excited when I was told Senator Clinton and I would be addressing you tonight.

CLINTON: And I was told I would be addressing you alone.

PALIN: Now I know it must be a little bit strange for all of you to see the two of us together, what with me being John McCain’s running mate…

CLINTON: And me being a fervent supporter of Senator Barack Obama, as evidenced by this button.

PALIN: But tonight, we are crossing party lines to address the now very ugly role that sexism is playing in the campaign.

CLINTON: An issue that I am frankly surprised to hear people suddenly care about.

PALIN: You know, Hillary and I don’t agree on everything…

CLINTON: Anything…I believe that diplomacy should be the cornerstone of any foreign policy.

PALIN: And I can see Russia from my house.

CLINTON: I believe global warming is caused by man…

PALIN: And I believe it’s just God huggin’ us closer.

CLINTON: I don’t agree with the Bush Doctrine…

PALIN: And I don’t know what that is.

CLINTON: But Sarah, one thing we can agree on is that sexism can never be allowed to permeate an American election.

PALIN: So please, stop Photoshopping my head on sexy bikini pictures.

CLINTON: And stop saying I have cankles.

PALIN: Don’t refer to me as a MILF.

CLINTON: And don’t refer to me as a “FLIRJ”. I Googled what it stands for and I do not like it.

PALIN: Reporters and commentators, stop using words that diminish us, like “pretty”, “attractive”, “beautiful”…

CLINTON: …”Harpy”, “shrew”, “boner-shrinker”…

There is nothing more unequal, than the equal treatment of unequal people,
Buffy

[freeztar]

So...you're saying you like Palin?

I've told all my lady friends that I find it disgusting that the McCain campaign would assume that Hillary supporters would suddenly become GOP because Hillary was not chosen as the dem VP. In other words, women are not a swing vote like that. Some are, but most are not. If I was a woman, I'd be insulted by this tactic. Women are much smarter than that.

[Moontanman]

Sadly none of the people who support Palin will care about any of this stuff, she is all flash and no substance and that is exactly what the McCain campaign wants. She is the solid girl next door church going soccer mom who cannot do any wrong. Anything she does is done in accordance with gods plan, her good looks and ability to field dress a moose is more important than any possible ability to actually run the country. I bet $50 to a donut she couldn't field dress a rabbit, much less a moose.

[Buffy]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

Sadly none of the people who support Palin will care about any of this stuff, she is all flash and no substance and that is exactly what the McCain campaign wants.

Sure. The whole meme about attracting Hillary voters was for the press, because the McCain team knew that the Main Stream Media (MSM) would lap it up and run with it as "brilliant." The real reason for picking her was to shore up the social-conservative base *only*, who the McCain team has been sure are so apathetic about McCain's weak "family-values" credentials that even they wouldn't show up in November. The choice actually is quite smart in that respect, and I can't fault their logic!

On the other hand, the above hopefully *should* have an impact on the independents that the McCain copycat theme of "Change" is directed at. Large numbers of these folks are undecided, and at the moment there's much consternation about the fact that staying "On Message" about these points that have been proven false again and again may not matter because the Democrats simply have not been very good at not just responding but also not going on the attack. The McCain folks are pretty sure that this is working:

Originally Posted by Wheels Come Off the Straight Talk Express, First Read, MSNBC 9/13/08

McCain spokesman Brian Rogers said this to the Politico about the increased media scrutiny of the campaign's factual claims: "We’re running a campaign to win. And we’re not too concerned about what the media filter tries to say about it.”

Not surprisingly, the Obama camp has pounced on all this: ... "While the media is slowly starting to call the McCain campaign on their dishonest tactics, McCain’s staff boasts that they don’t care. As a McCain spokesman told the Politico, 'We’re running a campaign to win. And we’re not too concerned about what the media filter tries to say about it.'"

Why not lie when you can get away with it? Heck only the traitorous liberal blogs are keeping track of how many times the Bridge to Nowhere Lie has been repeated, and the MSM won't say a word about it in the interests of avoiding being called The Liberal Media again by Rush Limbaugh being fair!

...well, at least as of today...(h/t thinkprogress.com)

Originally Posted by Moontanman

I bet $50 to a donut she couldn't field dress a rabbit, much less a moose.

Now that *is* sexist! Stop providing evidence that the McCain noise campaign is right!

Contrary to what the politicians and religious leaders would like us to believe, the world won't be made safer by creating barriers between people,
Buffy

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by Buffy

Sure. The whole meme about attracting Hillary voters was for the press, because the McCain team knew that the Main Stream Media (MSM) would lap it up and run with it as "brilliant." The real reason for picking her was to shore up the social-conservative base *only*, who the McCain team has been sure are so apathetic about McCain's weak "family-values" credentials that even they wouldn't show up in November. The choice actually is quite smart in that respect, and I can't fault their logic!

On the other hand, the above hopefully *should* have an impact on the independents that the McCain copycat theme of "Change" is directed at. Large numbers of these folks are undecided, and at the moment there's much consternation about the fact that staying "On Message" about these points that have been proven false again and again may not matter because the Democrats simply have not been very good at not just responding but also not going on the attack. The McCain folks are pretty sure that this is working:
Why not lie when you can get away with it? Heck only the traitorous liberal blogs are keeping track of how many times the Bridge to Nowhere Lie has been repeated, and the MSM won't say a word about it in the interests of avoiding being called The Liberal Media again by Rush Limbaugh being fair!

...well, at least as of today...(h/t thinkprogress.com)

Now that *is* sexist! Stop providing evidence that the McCain noise campaign is right!

Contrary to what the politicians and religious leaders would like us to believe, the world won't be made safer by creating barriers between people,
Buffy

Nothing sexist about it, I've field dressed a deer, it's damn hard to do, I did when I was young, I could lift 200 lbs over my head easy then but field dressing a deer after a day of hunting, climbing over hills and tree trunks it taxed me greatly to dress and bring in that deer. I had to drag it up the side of a mountain and down into the next ravine. I've also killed cows and pigs and dressed them out as well, it is not an easy job and yes women can do it but not bullshit fakers like Palin. Just because she reasonably easy to look at people are willing to believe anything that's said about her, she doesn't have the look of someone who can kill and cut up an animal much less one in the wild after a day of hard hunting. She's soft, she is a bulls**t artist, I'd call bulls**t on her in a heart beat. she might be cast iron hard mentally but she doesn't have the right stuff to do all the *crap* that is told about her. I can see her participating in dressing moose, at a make shift camp with a couple of big guys to help her out but by herself like the reports would have you believe? Bullshit, a moose can weigh as much a 1000 pounds, a deer maybe 200 pounds, Mine weighed 125, From then on I went back to the farm and got a few friends to come out and help, I'm quite certain she did too.

[Buffy]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

Nothing sexist about it, I've field dressed a deer, it's damn hard to do...

Yes it is sexist! So what if its hard to do!

Never having met her or seen her in real life you make it quite clear that you are saying you don't believe solely because she's a woman, and that's *sexism* pal! Sure she's a bulls**t artist too, but stop and think: if it was a male bulls**t artist saying this, would you even bother to think about it? No, because sure, he might be lying, but its at least *possible* if you don't know how strong he is. On the other hand, if its a woman you immediately jump on it as "impossible!"

This is the *real* question though: why you *want* to spend *any* time on this issue at all? Do you realize by even saying this that the folks that favor McCain will jump all over it screaming "See! Those Liberals are all Hypocritical Sexists!" most importantly, to the exclusion of any discussion of topics that actually matter.

Shame on you for being such a sucker and falling into their trap of deception and misdirection! This is *exactly* what the McCain folks *want* you to do!

If you want McCain to win, keep saying stuff like "she couldn't possibly field dress a moose!"

Women are like teabags. We don't know our true strength until we are in hot water!
Buffy