09-14-2008
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 Astounding Vision | Re: Differences Between Conservatives and Liberals Quote:
---------------- Michael Life is the poetry of the universe. Love is the poetry of life. Nuclear is the only real option! http://www.nuclearspace.com/Liberty_ship_menupg.aspx Check this out http://www.conservationfisheries.org...ream_lines.htm Over heard from a three year old, "Daddy why do my toes get sticky when I eat strawberry jam?"  Never wrestle a troll. You both get dirty and the troll likes it   | ||
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09-14-2008
| #12 (permalink) | ||
 Creating   | Re: Differences Between Conservatives and Liberals Quote:
~modest ----------------  | ||
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09-14-2008
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 Thinking | Re: Differences Between Conservatives and Liberals Quote:
BTW, I'm pro-choice because I want to have wild, unprotected, debauchery-filled orgies all day, everyday without having to deal with the consequences. Just like any other liberal. Duh. | ||
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09-14-2008
| #14 (permalink) | ||
 Creating  Sponsor | Re: Differences Between Conservatives and Liberals Quote:
---------------- "Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents; it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. (Ancient Indian Proverb)" 1874 engraving of Mount Hood and the Columbia River by R. Henshel Wood | ||
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09-14-2008
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 Creating | Re: Differences Between Conservatives and Liberals Why not discuss the topic at hand? If some of you wish to rebut the statements concerning Libs and Cons, why not do so? If your mind directs you to be liberal, why not be proud of it and defend the differences? Be proud of your NEA led educational program, your ACLU, your demands to raise taxes, your desire for government to provide financial equality? '' Difference Between Conservatives and Liberals I heard an interesting comment on the way to work this morning, and it made me think. I generally listen to WMAL, a talk-radio station, mostly for the traffic and weather, but I do enjoy the interplay between Andy Parks and Fred Grandy on the "Andy & Grandy in the Morning Show." This morning, former-Congressman Grandy described conservatives as being optimistic about domestic policy and pessimistic about foreign policy; while liberals were the opposite, pessimistic about domestic policy and optimistic about foreign policy. When I heard the comment, I thought his generalization was right on the money. After additional reflection, I think Congressman Grandy is more right than he knew. Think about it. Most conservatives, as foreign policy pessimists, take the “trust, but verify” approach of President Regan when it comes to foreign policy. Liberals, on the other hand, as foreign policy optimists want to be “engaged” in the international community, and see acceptance and trust from other countries as necessary aspects of our foreign policy. Conservatives want a strong national defense, to deter those who may want to harm us and to enable us to respond, in force, to those who try. Liberals want to cut back on defense spending and limit military actions. Pessimistic conservatives see a need for a strong foreign policy, a “speak softly and carry a big stick” approach, while optimistic Liberals see a need for international approval and take a “dialogue will solve everything” approach. On the domestic front most conservatives, as domestic optimists, believe that anyone can rise above the circumstances of their birth through hard-work and perseverance. Liberals, as domestic pessimists, believe that the Government must step in to help those less fortunate and that we all must pay (through larger taxes) to be fair and even the playing field. Optimistic conservatives emphasize the individual, while pessimistic Liberals emphasize the collective-whole. Conservatives want less government and are optimistic that less regulation and less tax will be an incentive for growth. Liberals want more government, more regulation and more taxes to fund them; because they’re pessimistic about our ability to govern our actions without someone telling us how to do it. Now I’ve known for some time that there is a word of difference between Conservatives and Liberals (even though sometimes the lines become blurred), but former-Congressman Grandy’s comment this morning sure brought the blurry picture into focus for me. '' Posted by lela at 11:46 AM Link: Harmless Beyond a Reasonable Doubt: The Difference Between Conservatives and Liberals | |
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09-14-2008
| #16 (permalink) | |
| Creating | Re: Differences Between Conservatives and Liberals This is the last link I intend to publish on this subject. It is a little more detailed than the others and more explanatory. As of yet there have been no liberal explanations of what ''true liberalism'' is all about. ''The Difference Between Conservatives and Liberals A couple of days ago, Rip set forth a challenge to Russell and I to describe the differences between liberalism and conservatism. This is even more challenging for me than it might be otherwise, because while I am conservative on some issues, I disagree with mainstream conservatism on others. For the sake of the discussion, though, I'll do my best to extrapolate. Russell presents as his thesis below that a principal difference between liberalism and conservatism is that liberalism identifies with the "other" more often. He then thoughtfully provides a counter-example in the abortion debate. Here are some more groups with which I believe liberalism as ontology not only demonstrates little empathy, but in some cases open hostility: Religious people Wealthy people White people --particularly white men, and even more particularly conservative white men Asians as a minority group Republicans Alleged white-collar criminals (heard any liberals defending Enron executives recently?) Whatever else one can say about liberalism, it isn't really about identifying with people who aren't like liberals. Unfortunately, feeling more empathy for those with whom we identify, and less for those with whom we don't, is not a conservative trait. It's a human trait. Okay then, so what is liberalism about, in my view? What is it that liberalism thinks some minority groups, the environment, criminals, homosexuals, other nations, drug users, and the poor have in common? Victimhood. To a liberal, they are all victims. Liberalism splits the world into pieces and looks for the external cause of the challenges each piece faces. The environment is the victim of Big Business and Big Oil. Criminals are victims of their upbringing, of an unfair system, and of religious zealots who would put them all to death. Homosexuals are victims of their own biology and of religious zealots who would oppress them. Other nations are victims of the United States and of neo-conservatives who would oppress them. Drug users are victims of strict drug laws and of religious zealots who would throw them in jail. Minorities--some of them, anyway--are victims of white men. Women that are pregnant but do not wish to be are victims of circumstance and/or of the men that made them pregnant. The poor are victims of their initial economic standing in life and of the rich, including Big Business. This is the first of three differences I see between liberalism and conservatism. Liberalism sees the individual--person, plant, and animal--as to a large degree powerless victims of fate or of an oppressor, who must be saved by the intervention of others--in particular, government. Conservatism, on the other hand, sees the individual as basically powerful, as valuable, and as both capable of and responsible for their own greatness. A good conservative wants to see each and every individual reach their highest potential, regardless of whether that person is white, black, rich, poor, virtuous, a criminal, straight, gay, American or not. They believe that nothing can elevate individuals higher than each person striving in freedom to be more, to be better, to be more successful. And they believe that in almost all ways, government not only works badly, but actively impedes the striving for individual greatness that provides the greatest opportunity for people, including the least fortunate among us, to elevate themselves. Conservatives see government as a necessary evil, really good at only one thing: the application of force. The job of government is to use force when needed to protect its citizens from the use of force by others. That means the military, for protection from hostile forces, and law enforcement for protection from criminals. And yet conservatives do believe that people need help from time to time. They believe that it is important to help those less fortunate then themselves, but think government as the wrong way to do it--not only ineffective, but also corrosive to the individual's own sense of responsibility for their own success. A second difference between liberalism and conservatism is that both liberals and conservatives empathize with people, but liberals define their policy by reacting directly to that empathy, whereas conservatives tend to take, as Rip says, a more systems-oriented view of the world. That's where liberals get the idea that conservatism doesn't empathize. It does--but it also says there is a bigger picture that liberalism misses. Conservatives empathize with the environment, for example, but perceive much of the "science" that says it is in grave jeopardy to be politically motivated. They don't believe the environment is in as much jeapordy as some--and liberalism--would have one believe. They believe that responsible stewardship of the environment need not require the harm to the economy--and, disproportionably, the poor--that would result from many liberal policies. And they believe that, in some cases, the liberal agenda would not in the end actually help the environment. Conservatives--particularly devoutly Christians ones--empathize with criminals. They see all people as children of God and as sinners. But they believe that just as overindulgent parents raise spoiled children, so it is bad public policy to think that extending empathy to be "soft" on criminals is doing them or society a favor. They believe instead that doing so just creates more criminals. Right or wrong, a good Christian conservative--which I am not, so I'm extrapolating, here--would say, "You are homosexual, and I empathize with you. It's totally okay to be homosexual. However, God says gay behavior is wrong, and you therefore ought not do it." Hence the expression, "hate the sin, love the sinner." Radio talk-show host Glenn Beck, who is both a religious conservative and a recovering alcoholic, draws this analogy. He says that he gives the benefit of the doubt to homosexuals who argue that sexual orientation is something you are born with, like hair or eye color. But, he says, he believes he was born an alcoholic. That's what he is. And, he says, that doesn't make it okay for him to drink, or absolve him from responsibility for his drinking. It means he has to overcome what he is to do what is right and to be who he should be. And he believes the same is true for homosexuals and homosexual behavior. Most conservatives would make a similar argument with respect to drug use. Rush Limbaugh says that things he did while addicted to prescription pain medication were wrong. Finally, as far as money is concerned, conservatives think there are many things that need to get done--and say, "Okay, so go do them. What are you waiting for?" Conservatism believes there is truth to Milton Freidman's statement that "When a man spends his own money to buy something for himself, he is very careful about how much he spends and how he spends it", and that this is not true when spending someone else's money. Liberals, on the other hand, believe they know better than those people whose money it is how that money should be spent, and believe people can not be trusted to spend their own money on the things the liberal believes are important. And yet the liberals can not afford to do all the things they want to do. So rather than earn the money they need, or budget or save up so they can afford the things they think should be done, they say, "The rich have the money, so... we'll take it by force, and spend it how we see fit, because we know best." Conservatives are generous with their own money, while liberals are generous with someone other people's money. Notice, by the way, the important distinction here between "conservatives and liberals" and "Democrats and Republicans". Taking money to which they are not entitled and spending it as they wish is a trait shared by both of our major political parties, unfortunately. But as far as the two political philosophies we've been discussing are concerned, it is conservatism that argues against it.'' Posted by David Gaw in Current Affairs & Politics at January 13, 2004 07:29 am. Link: Cuz We Said So: The Difference Between Conservatives and Liberals | |
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09-14-2008
| #17 (permalink) | |
| Astounding Vision | Re: Differences Between Conservatives and Liberals Why are you so ashamed of being a liberal questor, you remind me of a black man who is white enough in appearance to pass but insists on not only passing for white but also insists on being a white supremacist. Just relax and be the liberal inside you questor, be proud of the liberal cause. Don't allow all the lies told to you by the conservatives cause you to hate your self. We liberals are really good people, we'll take care of you, you have nothing to fear. Come into the light of liberalism you have nothing to fear but fear it's self, we'll be gentile.     ---------------- Michael Life is the poetry of the universe. Love is the poetry of life. Nuclear is the only real option! http://www.nuclearspace.com/Liberty_ship_menupg.aspx Check this out http://www.conservationfisheries.org...ream_lines.htm Over heard from a three year old, "Daddy why do my toes get sticky when I eat strawberry jam?" Never wrestle a troll. You both get dirty and the troll likes it Last edited by Moontanman; 09-15-2008 at 08:59 AM. | |
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09-15-2008
| #19 (permalink) | ||
| Creating | Re: Differences Between Conservatives and Liberals Quote:
Secondly, your insult, questor, has backfired. The Latin bible was meant to be read by speakers of Latin. Only in that context does the translation of “gentile” to mean “non-Jew” make sense. In Latin, ‘gentiles’ or ‘gentile’ means someone from your own family or your own clan. It’s a person who is like you... a person of your nation or your background. I understand how the bible screwed up that meaning, but I just find it funny - If you read Moontanman’s quote with the proper meaning of gentile it makes perfect and profound sense. Thirdly, perhaps we should all focus on the topic a bit more. ~modest ---------------- | ||
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09-15-2008
| #20 (permalink) | ||
| Astounding Vision | Re: Differences Between Conservatives and Liberals Quote:
I'll stay on topic, sorry boss man.  ---------------- Michael Life is the poetry of the universe. Love is the poetry of life. Nuclear is the only real option! http://www.nuclearspace.com/Liberty_ship_menupg.aspx Check this out http://www.conservationfisheries.org...ream_lines.htm Over heard from a three year old, "Daddy why do my toes get sticky when I eat strawberry jam?" Never wrestle a troll. You both get dirty and the troll likes it | ||
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