Activists on terror lists

[pgrmdave]

Civil disobedience is a good thing when the laws themselves are unjust. So long as it is done responsibly (say, african americans sitting at "white-only" counters and being arrested) and not irresponsibly (harming people or damaging property) then I believe that it can be a powerful force for social change.

[questor]

Z, could you give an example of what Ayers teaches? Just because someone has a teaching job does not mean you would like him to teach your children does it? Are you familiar with Ward Churchill? Radicalizing students until he was fired. I wouldn't want to have that for my kids.
Here is a little about Obama and Bill Ayers:

Obama's claims that “I have not received some official endorsement from” and “not somebody who I exchange ideas from on a regular basis” are both wrong. True, Ayers has not publicly endorsed Obama during the current presidential campaign, but Ayers opened his home to Obama very early in his first campaign for the Illinois state Senate and threw a fundraiser for him. Undoubtedly, that counts as some type of official endorsement.

The issue of not exchanging ideas regularly is clearly wrong, too. Ayers and Obama served on two boards together: the Chicago Annenberg Challenge from 1995 to 2001 and the Woods Foundation from 1993 to 2002. For the first five years with the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, Obama served as chairman of the board and handled its fiscal matters. Ayers was the Chicago Annenberg Challenge’s founder and he served as the chairman of the foundation’s other body that set education policy. Since they served together with a foundation that gave out over $100 million to groups that they both generally agreed with, there had to be some regular exchange of and agreement on ideas.

Agreement on views seemed particularly crucial, since Ayers hardly has what most Americans would consider “traditional” views on education. The Chicago Annenberg Challenge gave money to infuse students with a radical political commitment. Just in 2006, Ayers told Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chavez that, “We share the belief that education is the motor-force of revolution.” Ayers apparently told an author, who was writing a book on 1960s radicals shortly before the foundation was set up in 1995, that “I’m a radical, Leftist, small ‘c’ communist.”

Why would I want this man trying to indoctrinate my kid with his ideas?

[questor]

Essay, thanks for the nice compliment. As you may have noticed, I don't get much love on this site. I'll tell you what, why don't you pose a question to me
that you want answered and I will do it. I will forego comment on Reason's post, and YES, I do think peaceful civil disobedience has a place in improving society. The goal mentioned was noble and needed to be done.

[pgrmdave]

The people of Chicago, who know him far better than I do, have embraced him as an upstanding member of the community. I'm much more likely to base my thoughts of him on their judgment of him than off of things he did forty years ago. As for the sharing of views - are you denying the possibility that people can serve on boards together and not indoctrinate each other? That simply seems silly, and almost laughable.

[REASON]

Originally Posted by questor

Why would I want this man (Ayers) trying to indoctrinate my kid with his ideas?

Who said you have to? You seem to be suggesting that because Obama has had aquaintance with Ayers, he therefore subscribes to his educational philosophy, and is destined to force America's children to subscribe to it as well.

What, exactly, does Ayers' beliefs have to do with Obama as president.

McCain was openly endorsed by the radical fundamentalist religious nut John Hagee, and McCain welcomed his endorsement. Should we believe, therefore, that McCain is going adopt Hagee's foolish notions and force them upon American's children should he become president? McCain has since repudiated Hagee based on some of his nutty comments. But Obama has repudiated Ayers' past transgressions as well.

Sarah Palin's husband was a member of the Alaska Independence Party from 1995 to 2002. The AIP was formerly a secessionist party, which has been openly contemptuous of the US Government. It was founded by the rabidly anti-American Joe Volger who was quoted as saying, "The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government," before he was murdered in 1993 during an illegal sale of plastic explosives that went bad. Palin attended the 2000 AIP Convention, gave the keynote address at the 2006 convention, and recorded a video greeting for the 2008 convention. If Palin were to become Vice President, and maybe even President, should we be concerned about her and her husband's affiliations with this group as well? Do we want our kids to be indoctrinated into the notion that Alaska should no longer be a part of the USA?

Are these real fears we should be having about the candidates, or a distraction from the issues that are truly important to the success of our nation?

[Zythryn]

Originally Posted by questor

Why don't you read some information about Ayers teachings and beliefs? It's public record.

Good idea (really, no sarcasm, it was a good idea).
Here is the first quote Ayers put on his "Teaching" web page on his site describing his teaching concepts:

The paradox of education is precisely this—that as one begins to become conscious one begins to examine the society in which he [sic, throughout] is being educated. The purpose of education, finally, is to create in a person the ability to look at the world for himself, to make his own decisions, to say to himself this is black or this is white, to decide for himself whether there is a God in heaven or not. To ask questions of the universe, and then learn to live with those questions, is the way he achieves his own identity.

—James Baldwin

The site/page can be found here:Teaching Bill Ayers

Sure, I would not have wanted him teaching my kids when he was blowing up bathrooms. But that was many decades ago. I forgave Bush his smoking of MJ when he was young, and tend not to hold things against people that they did 30-40 years ago if they show they have changed.
Considering the respect he has in Chicago and the awards received and the work he does, I feel he has changed.

[freeztar]

I'd like to petition to put Rage Against The Machine on the "terrorist list". They are certainly an unruly bunch, and I love them!

Originally Posted by RATM

But I learned to burn that bridge and delete
Those who compete...at a level that's obsolete
Instead I warm my hands upon the flames of the flag
As I recall our downfall
And the business that burned us all
See through the news and the views that twist reality

Enough
I call the bluff
F**k Manifest destiny

Oh, gee golly, I didn't mean to associate you guys with terrorists!