Recreating America under Obama.

[jackson33]

Originally Posted by Turtle

not really. not for auto injuries: >> International Injury & Fatality Statistics

not for murders either: >> List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

not for dog bites: >> Statistics by Country for Dog bite - WrongDiagnosis.com

yada, yada, yada, endless other examples counter to your unsupported assertion.

I recommend this book to President Elect Obama and members of the Legislative & Executive branches of government at all levels, Federal, State, County, City. >> Ain't Nobody's Business If You Do - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of the 50 US States, we have probably 10-15 with the lowest level of violence in the WORLD and probably 5 near the highest level. Substantiated or not, IT IS MY OPINION, over all the US on average is the safest place. We could argue reporting methods, what are classified crimes in different places, the legal system employed or any number of probable discrepancies in accumulating facts.

*Safest US Cities* Honolulu with 288 Felony Crimes per hundred thousand in 2007 and El Paso, Texas with 418. *Worst* Detroit with 2289 and St. Louis with 2298, both indicating a nearly one in four chance for being a victim in any one year to about one chance one in 300. I would concede in both Honolulu and El Paso, those same reason for error could exist or that Detroit and St. Louis, which statistics for Federal Grants are influenced, but would only make my original point.

As for auto accidents, think you will find per mile driven these statistics are lower than most places, but also note traffic enforcement can vary from county to county with in a State, much less Country to Country.

As for your book recommendation, I would probably agree with the author. The point however, IMO its up to the States to enforce Federal Drug Laws and most today go after the traffickers, not the users already. The laws do exist however and if broken the user should be ready to pay the price. By the way we also have some really pathetic Domestic Violence laws and between these two classifications over half our Con and x-Con folks have come from. Seems a waste of money and man power...

[jackson33]

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

Two of my favorite people Bill Gates and Warren Buffet. These men get it about "giving" My minister is always bringing up these guy's as how the captains of industry and the super rich should act. I was not referring to men like these but the idea of what it means to be successful. Look how greed in the world of cooperate finance has put us the bind we find ourselves in. I have nothing against the accumulation of wealth. I do believe great wealth comes with great responsibility however.

Truth be known, these two and HUNDREDS of others involved with 'Charitable Trust Fund's' believe they can do better then the government and I agree. This is also true for Bush by funding Charity's directly will get the biggest bang for the buck, nearly 100% compared to the estimated 2 cents on the dollar for government, or even the Red Cross 78%.

Wal Mart's, Sam Walton got his start feeling 'Small Town USA' should get the same benefits larger towns had access to. Although 'Gibson' and other small retailers tried this, the system he offered worked, basically servicing store through warehouses and buying truck loads only to the warehouse (opposed to shipping producer to store) actually worked. Just visited their site today and their claiming near 300 Billion in saving to their customers, in the US, this year. Its called productivity and others like Dell Computer, Apple, Google have made the US the by far the best in efficiency. Think you will find Free Market/Capitalism has befitted society much more then you think and the few bad apples out their who are indeed the rare examples.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by jackson33

Of the 50 US States, we have probably 10-15 with the lowest level of violence in the WORLD and probably 5 near the highest level. Substantiated or not, IT IS MY OPINION, ...

It is de rigueur here to provide a link to your sources, and otherwise opinions are like pie-holes, everybody has one.

Originally Posted by Jack

As for your book recommendation, I would probably agree with the author. The point however, IMO its up to the States to enforce Federal Drug Laws and most today go after the traffickers, not the users already. The laws do exist however and if broken the user should be ready to pay the price. By the way we also have some really pathetic Domestic Violence laws and between these two classifications over half our Con and x-Con folks have come from. Seems a waste of money and man power...

I probably recommend you read the book too then. Please provide some links to support your further assertions on prison populations, otherwise were just stuffin' the hole.

PS G'donya Mr. Obama for choosing Joe Biden and showing your support for protecting women from violence.

[jackson33]

Turtle; Your welcome to 'google' Safest/Worst City, State or Countries and get a variety of OPINIONS, based on one angle or another. I had to do this and picked one that gave details on 'Violent Crime Rates' to offer you a reason, I don't have much faith in those or in fact many 'references'. In my mind El Paso Tx is NOT 5+ times safer than Detroit, then taking auto thefts out 7-8 times safer.

As for who and why folks are confined in the US, the best reference I know is
'drugwarfacts.org' which seems to be factual, but is motivated against being criminal in the first place. 'Prison, Jails and Probation, overview' there, will give you all the statistics you want and can be easily manipulated to construct any argument. For instance, first time drug users for some time only receive a probationary sentence, or time served (day to weeks) and probation. With over 7 million (think 2006) at years end listed in one group or another you can configure into anything.

My objection to your comments were and remain, the idea the US is the worst on some issue, when in fact there is no comparable legal system between our own States, much less to world communities...If you take the Federal Legal System, inmate cause/count, you would conclude we don't enforce anything.

PS; Please list one or more politician who, DOES NOT support protecting women from violence from any party.

[REASON]

Originally Posted by jackson33

Turtle; Your welcome to 'google' Safest/Worst City, State or Countries and get a variety of OPINIONS, based on one angle or another. I had to do this and picked one that gave details on 'Violent Crime Rates' to offer you a reason, I don't have much faith in those or in fact many 'references'. In my mind El Paso Tx is NOT 5+ times safer than Detroit, then taking auto thefts out 7-8 times safer.

As for who and why folks are confined in the US, the best reference I know is
'drugwarfacts.org' which seems to be factual, but is motivated against being criminal in the first place. 'Prison, Jails and Probation, overview' there, will give you all the statistics you want and can be easily manipulated to construct any argument. For instance, first time drug users for some time only receive a probationary sentence, or time served (day to weeks) and probation. With over 7 million (think 2006) at years end listed in one group or another you can configure into anything.

My objection to your comments were and remain, the idea the US is the worst on some issue, when in fact there is no comparable legal system between our own States, much less to world communities...If you take the Federal Legal System, inmate cause/count, you would conclude we don't enforce anything.

Obfuscation.

Originally Posted by jackson33

PS; Please list one or more politician who, DOES NOT support protecting women from violence from any party.

Every politician who refuses to do anything about the increasing incidences of rape and brutalization of women by KBR employees, and military servicemen in Iraq where there seems to be zero accountability and rampant lawlessness.

Rape in Iraq - Google Search

[jackson33]

What would you suggest Congress or the Executive branch is to do? Both have renounced actions of a few GI's and/or Contractor employee's, but we already have an active Court System to deal with such problems, under the Military Code of Justice. Are you suggesting ANYONE is obstructing that justice? Each case, has its own merits and as here in the US, should be judged on factual evidence.

If possible, would think you'll find most Iraq women feel quite safe around American's possibly more so than around their men.

Also, keep in mind here in the US, forcible rape is a major crime compared to the statistics available in Iraq or even for the UN Peace Keepers, raping the one they were protecting, according to the American MEDIA sources. Maybe a couple per 100k, compared to Cleveland 138/100k, Minneapolis 101/100k. I'll acknowledge reporting rape in the first place is going to be restrained in a Country, where rape had virtually not been address or that many go unreported for reason, but it happens here, there and everyplace.

[Essay]

What an enjoyable read!! More to comment on later, but real quick--two risky (3:00 am) comments:
Jackson33, I haven't clicked on the link, but I'm betting they are talking about American women being raped (by American men), not Iraqi women being....
...and what do you mean by "forcible rape?" Do you mean to contrast the random rapes within an average society, to rapes in a war zone--with the sort of institutionalized pattern of rape that some occupying forces might perpetrate?
===

...but on "Recreating America...."
Tbird,
As to your 4 specifics (inspiration, innovation, international, & inveterates): Yes, Yes, Positive, & ...There will probably be several, including Jesse Ventura.
...but I think #'s 2 & 3 will be problematic unless we do a bit of "re-creating."

The vision I have for a re-created U.S. involves a major change in Agriculture policy.

Certainly the vision that sees, within our Agricultural policies, the interrelationships between our problems with Health Care, the Environment, the Economy, National Security, Petroleum Dependance, and more... is key to finding a synergizing solution that works to address a multitude of problems.
See:
http://hypography.com/forums/terra-p...tml#post244344

Originally Posted by Michael Pollan

...the 20th-century industrialization of agriculture has increased the amount of greenhouse gases emitted by the food system by an order of magnitude; chemical fertilizers (made from natural gas), pesticides (made from petroleum), farm machinery, modern food processing and packaging and transportation have together transformed a system that in 1940 produced 2.3 calories of food energy for every calorie of fossil-fuel energy it used into one that now takes 10 calories of fossil-fuel energy to produce a single calorie of modern supermarket food. Put another way, when we eat from the industrial-food system, we are eating oil and spewing greenhouse gases.

...about Pollan's NYTimes "open letter" to the next President ...and Obama's response.
===

I happened to catch Michael Pollan on Bill Moyers last night:
Bill Moyers Journal . Michael Pollan | PBS
Bill Moyers Journal

Several times they joked about Michael Pollan potentially being
a good choice for Secretary of Agriculture.
Of course the Ag. Lobbies and big Agri-business would never allow that...

...but what a way that would be ...to recreate America!

School kids could be growing their own school lunches; and learning how, and why, and what, and....
~

[jackson33]

Essay; In short what your calling for and Mr. Pollan, is the restructuring of the American appetite, for the sake or reasons of other issues, then primarily climate control or the effects of mankind on it...Natural Foods, outlets for these products and a consumer base already exist and growing, but hundreds of years from being a viable source for human nutrition and probably will be beat out by some pill with all that is required to fill that requirement.

In the meantime, Food Production by 'Industrial Farming' is by far less damaging on the environment, than would be if we returned to individual farms, gardens and the like, allowing even the possibility to feed 6.6 Billion people, much of which lives in poor areas to grow anything. I find it interesting Michael Pollan, who was born in NYC and now teaches at the University of Berkley in California would harbor such views or the idea we are reaching a point of where production will fall below human needs. (Farmer In Chief.
10/9/08 letter to Obama). Then contribute pollution by those farms, over what would be with 20,000 small farms to equal their production, or the control over harmful run off or contamination of the product from outside sources. I won't go into the hundreds of food products being commercially produced, including Sea Food, Animal Stock, Poultry or the artificial products produced by altering currently easily available product as White Fish into Crab meat...

Obama won on an inspirational message, no question here and most Presidents have been elected by inspiring segments of a society. I see nothing wrong in this and do believe a good part of that job is to lead his/her nation to others in world with those ideas. The question is whether others will accept and in this case, will those thoughts/ideas filling many with unachievable hope from individual perceptions even be achievable. The one I recall most was two chickens in every pot and prosperity for all, which in reality became the 'Great Depression'...

Forcible Rape is a classification, used in statistics, which is different in each State and most certainly in every country. My point, I think your referring to is American's raping or creating havoc toward Iraq Women which over 7 years has been extremely minimal. I do recall some articles indicating up to 17 and 20% of US Women in the military being harassed or some degree of rape, while on duty, but a different topic and I personally don't like the idea of ladies serving in military conflicts...

[Essay]

Sheesh, at 3 am, the contrast of "forcible" with "statutory" didn't occur to me.
===

You asked, "...will those thoughts/ideas filling many with unachievable hope from individual perceptions even be achievable."
Yep, that's me--the audacity of unachievable hope....
===

"'Industrial Farming' is by far less damaging on the environment...." -J33
Huh?
This vision does not mean simply dividing up the energy intensive monoculture farms, totally reliant on herbicide and insecticide control, into 20,000 smaller copies.
This runs counter to everything Pollan, science, and the collective wisdom here at Hypography tells us.
While neither of us have sourced our claims, I think that'd be best done as a separate Topic.
===

So, "restructuring of the American appetite, for the sake or reasons of other issues, then primarily climate control..." is a fair assessment of what I'm thinking. The fact that changing that appetite also has strong positive effects on the economy, pollution, declining harvests, health care, and national security are just side benefits IMO. I don't see why this change in focus of our appetite couldn't also provide "side benefits" like helping to restore the value of home mortgages and the financial sector, to increase the integration of eduction with the business and civic communities, and to provide opportunities for improving the situation with drugs, crime and prisons, homelessness, and even immigration.
===

...still sorta dazed from all the tryptophan....
...so, some random, loosely related, rants....
Of course we could just let free-market natural selection tackle each of these problems separately, in all the little corners of the country; and just hope some things work better than in the past (and don't have other unintended consequences), and that these will catch on and spread (by natural selection) to finally address these problems.
These days though, this might be difficult while competing against the momentum of global corporations.

The problem with free-market 'natural selection" is that the parameters defining "fittest" are oriented around short-term profit and strength, and have nothing to do with long-term sustainability or endurance.

I don't know though; I don't think there is enough time or space remaining to let these global opportunistic networks "compete it out" to see who can maximize profits, regardless of the effects of production and consumption....

...and tada! ...the awkward metaphor-of-the-day....
There's a lot of momentum built into our economic and financial engines. Turning the ship of state will not be easy; but I think it'll be easier if we have a focus for change, rather than just trying to fix problems individually, hoping to sustain the current course for as long as possible.

~

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by jackson33

Turtle; Your welcome to 'google' Safest/Worst City, State or Countries and get a variety of OPINIONS, based on one angle or another. I had to do this and picked one that gave details on 'Violent Crime Rates' to offer you a reason, I don't have much faith in those or in fact many 'references'. In my mind El Paso Tx is NOT 5+ times safer than Detroit, then taking auto thefts out 7-8 times safer.

As for who and why folks are confined in the US, the best reference I know is
'drugwarfacts.org' which seems to be factual, but is motivated against being criminal in the first place. 'Prison, Jails and Probation, overview' there, will give you all the statistics you want and can be easily manipulated to construct any argument.

No! You post the link you feel supports your opinion; that's the way it works. As I recall, you brought up the issue of safety, so if any argument can be made of the stats then using any argument based on the stats as a premise/predicate must needs result in a false conclusion. Your point then is moot.

Originally Posted by Jacksinator

My objection to your comments were and remain, the idea the US is the worst on some issue, when in fact there is no comparable legal system between our own States, much less to world communities...If you take the Federal Legal System, inmate cause/count, you would conclude we don't enforce anything.

PS; Please list one or more politician who, DOES NOT support protecting women from violence from any party.

You lost me on which 'comments' and 'worst issue' of mine you object to. Was it the dog bites? Your PS is disingenuous.