What the..... GET THE US OUT OF THE MIDDLE EAST!

[Theory5]

I was watching The Daily Show on Hulu.com and apperently the US is starting to try and weed out the heroin traffikers, because it is a 10 billion dollar industry, which supports the terrorists. Because it could help them catch the people who thought up 9/11. Now I am not an anti-american american, but I will say that I do not care who thought up 9/11, yes it was bad, but we can't catch them and thats that. Around 3000 people died in 9/11. And I say SO WHAT? How many homeless die a year in this "great" country from starvation and lack of shelter and medical care? How many people have been turned down from hospitals becuase they couldnt pay, so they were refused the care? How many people have died from drinking or smoking related causes? How many civvies have we killed extracting our revenge on the wrong people?
Who knows? Nobody cares.
Yet crash two planes into a few buildings and people get their feathers ruffled. And this wasnt an unexpect thing, really. There were reports that went completely ignored about a terror attack on the US, nothing was said to the public.
Now Obama is in the white house, and he claims he will bring the troops back, but now he says it will take a year or so until we are sure that iraq can support themselves!!
So now we are going to try to take down a drug empire while we are at it? Havent we learned anything yet? What exactly makes America think that she is the best thing for these people, that she can help them?
Then everyone is going off about Obama's address to the muslim countries. Why is it annoying people? I think its good that he is reaching out, peacefullly.

[lemit]

Originally Posted by Theory5

[C]rash two planes into a few buildings and people get their feathers ruffled.

Strange, isn't it, how killing 3000 innocent people will cause that kind of irritation. I guess some people are just over-sensitive.

--lemit

p.s. To prevent a bunch of future apologies, I was being sarcastic.

[Boerseun]

As heartless as it might seem, I kinda see your point.

America had to respond after 9/11, to show to the world, prospective terrorists and her own population that she will bite back. Ironically, her response might just achieve what the terrorists attempted. Through crazy military spending like there's no tomorrow, America might blow the foundations out from under the economy. Things like Homeland Protection chisel away at the individual constitutional freedoms, the very Soul of America.

So, ironically, it might be that the US' response to 9/11 might serve as a incentive for further terrorist attacks on the same scale - whereby you blow up a few buildings in select spots, scurry back to your hole-in-the-wall and watch America self-destruct.

I think Obama engaging in a real conversation with the Muslim world on equal terms is paramount. Whether I agree with their particular brand of delusion is another matter, entirely.

[Ganoderma]

agreed. but the difference is with starving people in their own nation and poverty, disease etc, they can find all sorts of excuses and reasons and ways to fix them etc etc. with 9/11 there was probably a lot of shame...or something...to it. i mean they were attacked and lost control....doesn't matter how much control there was, it looks like they are weak and pathetic, so start some more stuff no matter the consequence

i agree with you. the whole 9/11 Afghanistan etc scenario has always pissed me off, both ways. but to be sadly truthful, i find it somewhat interesting how these terrorists (the Saudi Arabian ones) made such a big impact to the ants nest with pretty much almost zero cost, and the other terrorists (the Americans) have spent god know how much money, probably a bigger number than many countries would ever have), and all they have done is turn half the planet against them. i find it interesting because despite the impact it has had on people opinions and beliefs/life style.....what has really changed? and who is stopping what

nothing in my eyes. we traded swords for bombs, horses for gas and we are still the same as we always have been.

we are just dumb as a species

[Theory5]

Originally Posted by lemit

Strange, isn't it, how killing 3000 innocent people will cause that kind of irritation. I guess some people are just over-sensitive.

--lemit

p.s. To prevent a bunch of future apologies, I was being sarcastic.

Haha, I think we all know you are joking lemit. :-)

I apologize for my origional post, I was a little wound up over something else and that post was the result.

I care about all life, yes even those in the middle east, but when people discuss the Twin Towers Incedent as some sort of horrific huge body count once-in-a-lifetime horror that caps all others, I just get pissed off. Yes it was a horrible tragity and many people lost their lives. But if you look around, each year the flu kills around 9,000 people, homeless people dont have anyone to turn to when they need medical care, thousands die on the streets every year, drunk driving and reckless driving has killed so many more, and our collective punishment on Iraqi cities has killed thousands of civilians all to find terrorists who live in a hole in the middle of nowhere and have been portrayed by the US government and the media to look like huge threats to the "free" world, it just makes me upset. I think its changed, and our army are the terrorists. WE are the evil invaders who want nothing more than to kill.
In some places in Iraq they dont have enough food to eat, and even running water. If you think that Iraq and Afganistan is a threat to the US, I just cannot agree. Sure there are some terrorist cells that have hijacked planes and killed people, but you cannot associate them with any country. Its like associating the MOVE orgaization with America(or another organization, just pick one), sure they might live here but they do not speak for us, or anything like that. And the terrorist cells dont even live in Iraq! We went in on false pretenses, fought people who were not there, and worded it in such a way that most of America supports the governments decision!

[lemit]

The thing about 9/11 that drives a lot of us crazy is that unlike many domestic problems it was not just reprehensible, it was also preventable and prosecutable. If we knew about homelessness what we knew beforehand about al Qaeda, if we had the kind of purpose about healthcare that both the national and international communities had immediately after 9/11, we could shelter and heal ourselves and export those palliative technologies to the rest of the world. The fact that we flailed around in Afghanistan and then attacked the most stable government in the immediate area is inexcusable--but it is instructive.

If we had stopped the hijackers on the no-fly list--if we had struck the camps after we failed to use the no-fly list, and had then allowed the UN to handle the Taliban--we could have tackled a lot of more complex international problems instead of exacerbating them. Hell, if we had tried studying that region 40 years ago instead of just trying to build on our preconcieved notions and cold war yinyang thinking, which is what the CIA was recuiting people to do at that time, we could have been much better to our people and their people. If we had paid attention to the leaders of Southeast Asia instead of deposing them, we could have helped stabilize that region instead of destabilizing it. From what members of the Sihanouk family told me at the time (off the record), it was our refusal to provide humanitarian aid without military aid that drove those countries to other sources of income. What could we have done with all the blood and treasure lost in that region? (And we must remember that blood is treasure--by far the greatest treasure.)

We are self-centered idiots when it comes to the rest of the world. Always have been, always will be. And this time I'm not being sarcastic, although I'm definitely not being as cautious as I should. I hope I don't need to become as paranoid as the Afghanis and Iranians I've known over the years.

We are the great white whale, powerful, unpredictable, and vastly dangerous. If history is a useful guide, we might possibly do the right thing, but it might well take us a century or two to get around to it. And even then we're likely to change our minds and decide we really wanted to do the wrong thing after all. Remember that just last fall John McCain got 45% of the vote after reminding that ranting woman in the audience that Barack Obama wasn't an Arab; he was a good man.

To borrow language from mental health social work, we pose a danger both to ourselves and to others.

--lemit

(About the CIA thing, a minor State Department official was driving a group of my Middle Eastern friends around while they were handling paperwork to be able to stay in the U.S. on student visas. I was tagging along. While the friends were all out of the car taking care of papers, the official started asking me a lot of personal questions about likes and dislikes, tastes, personal interests, hopes and dreams, as well as my thinking about foreign policy, which was a very popular topic at that time. Of course, knowing I was a reporter, he asked if I wouldn't like to work for USIA. Later, I asked my friends if the guy was coming on to me. They laughed and told me he was a CIA recruiter who had had similar conversations with all of them, eventually turning to what they could do for their countries. Apparently my anger with my own country's foreign policy made me not a favorable candidate, although the recruiter reportedly had better luck with a few of the students. Whether that success included other kinds of contact I couldn't say.)

[lemit]

Oh, I almost forgot . . .


USA! USA! USA!

[Larv]

Afghanistan + Iraq + Vietnam + Korea = Military-Industrial Complex + Coca-Cola + MacDonalds + Wal-mart

Trotsky: “Capitalism is a way to keep working men from thinking too much.”

Larv: “Communism is a way to keep thinking men from working too much.”

Jesus Christ: “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth; I came not to send peace but a sword.”

Pogo: “We have met the enemy, and he is us.”

Ricky Nelson: “Well, it’s all right now. I’ve learned my lesson well. You can’t please everyone, so you got to please yourself.”

Conclusion: Only cartoon characters and dead rock stars make any sense.

[lemit]

Originally Posted by Larv

Afghanistan + Iraq + Vietnam + Korea = Military-Industrial Complex + Coca-Cola + MacDonalds + Wal-mart

Trotsky: “Capitalism is a way to keep working men from thinking too much.”

Larv: “Communism is a way to keep thinking men from working too much.”

Jesus Christ: “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth; I came not to send peace but a sword.”

Pogo: “We have met the enemy, and he is us.”

Ricky Nelson: “Well, it’s all right now. I’ve learned my lesson well. You can’t please everyone, so you got to please yourself.”

Conclusion: Only cartoon characters and dead rock stars make any sense.

Into which group would you put yourself? I don't want to cause trouble. I just want to know if I guessed right.

--lemit

[Larv]

Originally Posted by lemit

Into which group would you put yourself? I don't want to cause trouble. I just want to know if I guessed right.

lemit, I’m with Pogo. The United States has meddled atrociously in too many affairs beyond our borders. It started with Panama and never quit. Our capitalistic military-industrial complex only fuels our foreign intrigue. We think nothing now of pre-emptively invading a sovereign nation and taking out its leader. When there’s big bucks to be made on military matters and warfare a capitalistic society will grind the wheels of industry to make those bucks.

And we’ll do in the name of Jesus and natural security.