Immigration Reform in U.S.

[Cedars]

Originally Posted by Buffy

Well, first off, no post is required to be related specifically to the Original Post, it's perfectly legitimate to respond to later posts in the thread.

Indeed avoiding the implications of one's remarks is one of the best ways of remaining blind to the implications of their fallacious nature.

The implication of the post I was referring to was directly aimed at your claims about incentives of business to not hire illegal aliens:

No point in being snotty. Your off-handed question with no apparent reason inspired me to ask how it was related.

Originally Posted by Buffy

While I'm glad that you acknowledge that business has no inherent (i.e. Smith's Invisible Hand) incentive to not hire illegals, you do not address the issue that neither does government, when business has the ability to lobby so easily for blocking such enforcement as you envision.

And I am unimpressed by business' whining about how tough it is for them. They have nafta, gatt, china, india, etc filling their needs and yet they scream for more.

Originally Posted by Buffy

Except for nativists like Patrick Buchanan, "cracking down on illegal immigration" continues to be easily voted down by an alliance between both the bleeding-heart liberals *and* the pro-business conservatives. In fact it is the *conservative* economists who push open borders on quite solid theoretical and practical grounds.

Which of course was the promise made during the Reagan amnesty. We've been there done that (amnesty). And I am unimpressed by academics who dont live in the communities with the influx of illegals and the burdens put on schools, healthcare, social services, etc.

Originally Posted by Buffy

The point I'm making is that the only *political* force that will cause what you're asking for is from strong labor unions which create both direct pressure on businesses to raise wages as well as indirectly on the political institutions as a balance to the pro-business lobby.

We had a strong labor union force. Broken by, wait for it, Business and various elements related to Nafta, GATT, China, india...

Originally Posted by Buffy

As Craig said, the issue we should be talking about here is what are the practical solutions to the problem, and I am adding "how do we get there."

And I have said what I think needs to be done. Put americans to work busing them back across the border (both borders cuz theirs a bunch of canuks border jumping too). Wouldnt be any different than mexico, china, canada, australia would treat american illegals.

[Buffy]

Originally Posted by Cedars

And I have said what I think needs to be done. Put americans to work busing them back across the border (both borders cuz theirs a bunch of canuks border jumping too). Wouldnt be any different than mexico, china, canada, australia would treat american illegals.

How is that program going to get voted for, funded and implemented?

Simple solutions seldom are. It takes a very unusual mind to undertake analysis of the obvious,
Buffy

[Cedars]

Originally Posted by Buffy

How is that program going to get voted for, funded and implemented?

Simple solutions seldom are. It takes a very unusual mind to undertake analysis of the obvious,
Buffy

1. It doesnt need to be voted for, its the law.

2. Funding? Well how about using the money we spend on illegals now, such as this 1.5 million?
Florida Hospital Defends Deporting Illegal Immigrant After Spending $1.5 Million on Man's Care - Topix

How about the 20 million here?
Illegal Immigrant Dialysis Proves Costly To Hospitals, System - Kaiser Health News

How about the general fund and the $10 billion here?

Illegal Immigrants' Cost to Government Studied (washingtonpost.com)

How about the 34 billion here?:
Impacts of Illegal Immigration: Education

3. Implemented?

Gosh, I dunno, maybe put the 10+ million or so americans looking for work on the job.

[Buffy]

So, why isn't it happening? And what would you do to actually make it happen?

Originally Posted by Cedars

Gosh, I dunno.

Apparently.

The question is, do you want to be part of the solution or do you just want to complain about it?

Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain,
Buffy

[Cedars]

Well I found out more about Obama's aunt:

Zeituni Onyango - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I wonder if shes a criminal for getting Public housing after her order to deport. Isnt that fraud?

Found more funding:

Illegal immigrant population of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 2005, 20 BILLION dollars was shipped out of the US to fund whatever (via illegals sending cash home). Thats 20 billion that could have, and should have been spent by americans, most of it in america.

[Southtown]

I am not against amnesty. My main concern is simply registering the illegal immigrants so they can make the same wages as the rest of us, and also pay taxes into the 'entitlement pool' along with the rest of us. On the down-side, some businesses may not stay afloat. On the up-side, our social security and medicare programs would be a bit better off.

Originally Posted by Buffy

So, why isn't it happening?

That's the million dollar question. Lack of an over-site committee I suppose, lawyers-in-pocket, so-to-speak.

Originally Posted by Buffy

And what would you do to actually make it happen?

Maybe we could get people to donate to a 'pubic' lobbyist fund (so that we may in-effect 'speak their language?') Sounds more productive than wanting more unenforced legislation, at least to me.

[Buffy]

Originally Posted by Southtown

Maybe we could get people to donate to a 'pubic' lobbyist fund (so that we may in-effect 'speak their language?')....

Tee hee! That's what those labor unions that the big business owners wanted--and got--eliminated or at least marginalized, used to do....

In a democratic and capitalist society, each group must be able to lobby for its own self-interest. The extent to which one group can marginalize other groups to its own benefit is detrimental to the society as a whole, although that detriment will affect that benefited group last...

That's part of American greatness, is discrimination. Yes, sir. Inequality, I think, breeds freedom and gives a man opportunity,
Buffy

[Southtown]

Well hell. Touché. So why the lobbyist laws then?

[Buffy]

Originally Posted by Southtown

So why the lobbyist laws then?

I don't think its possible--or even a really good idea--to get rid of lobbyists, but it sure would be nice to be sure you know where the money is coming from!

Hunt's come in from the cold. Supposedly he's got a lawyer with $25,000 in a brown paper bag,
Buffy

[Zythryn]

Hmmm, another topic that the decision to give corporations the same rights as people may have bad results.
I would first suggest a court challenge that would allow the high court to revisit that decision and maybe, reverse it.
Corporations should not be able to lobby, period (in my opinion).
The CEO, line worker, personal assistants, managers, etc can all voice their opinions as individuals.