Communist-capitalist

[tarak]

Communism means that all fingers are equal and if they are found to be unequal they shall be chopped. Capitalism says all whatever fingers you have,they will never be equal. If they try to grow to equalize they shall get chopped.In the existing frame of space and time what do communism and capitalism mean to you?

[TINNY]

at first, I got quite confused reading your post. mind your periods and commas.

communism and capitalism are basically two atheistic systems of economy.

[tarak]

Thanks for the observation.In today's world when the economies evolve and rules of the game are re-written,what do these streams of thought and ideals mean to a laymen. Perhaps even in the past they never bothered about these rules nor they had energy to bother about them.Philosophies lay foundations of thought which help in building rules and structures that help in managing economies and governing people.In this flux, when communist countries are adapting hard core capitalism and economies are driven by money and markets and administrative becomes a purely economic activity where do these two philosophies stand???

[paultrr]

Communism in its pure form simply stood for a system where everything is shared by the state equally and there was to be no real class differences. The problem is no pure communism has ever existed on this planet. Stalin's version of communism was simply a state government run dictatorship under which the state owned everything and all real profit went to the government. The problem with that version of socialism is that not only was there no real incentive outside of fear and hunger to produce, the government in trying to marginally support not only its people, but its military machine had major built in limits as far as expences go.

Capitalism at its core is a profit based system under which a potential equality of all exists. I say potential because its also built into this type of system that each individual while having the potential to be equal through gain in wealth will only rise as far as their own tallents/potential allow them to. Modern capitalism tends to produce the wealthy, middle class, and poor class division.

[Qfwfq]

Originally Posted by tarak

Communism means that all fingers are equal and if they are found to be unequal they shall be chopped. Capitalism says all whatever fingers you have,they will never be equal.

These are misquotes of the two ideologies, each mostly due to the propaganda of the other one.

Capitalism is based on private initiative as incentivated by the possibility of becoming richer or poorer. In its most extreme form, one who trips and falls will not be helped by the community and can only count on individual resources. Less extreme Capitalists believe in social welfare as a first step in avoiding problems, fair play, antitrust and other ethical issues. Others, especially in recent times, hold that anything goes and success by any means is survival of the fittest.

The main pro of Capitalism is that it doesn't need to be enforced, if anything it needs to be kept in check if it isn't meant to reach extremes.

Communism is based more on cooperation viewed much as a social duty, a notion that isn't absent in most mentalities but which many people lack. In its most extreme form it bans private interest and enforces the duty toward society, by means of law and deterrence. Less extreme Communists are not against private enterprise at all but hold that government should provide important productivity and services, anyone who finds it profitable to compete with these in a manner which doesn't go against the common good is welcome to do so.

The main pro of Communism is that it places the common good as the main aim and, at least in the strictest sense of the ideology, offers more equal opportunity to all.

Originally Posted by tarak

In this flux, when communist countries are adapting hard core capitalism and economies are driven by money and markets and administrative becomes a purely economic activity where do these two philosophies stand???

I'd say they both stand in deep dire straits. Both. Not just Communism but Capitalism as well. Most of all, society is getting deeper and deeper into the sh...

[Fishteacher73]

In society there will always be individuals that will high-jack social aparatus (gov't, religion, etc.) and use them to their own ends. I can see NO COUNTER-EXAMPLES of this. At one point EVERY social institution has been abused and manipulated by individuals to their own gain.

True capitalism exists on the finges of society. The black-market. Perhaps in underdeveloped countries the real golden rule still holds fast (those that have the gold make the rules).

[bumab]

Originally Posted by paultrr

Capitalism at its core is a profit based system under which a potential equality of all exists. I say potential because its also built into this type of system that each individual while having the potential to be equal through gain in wealth will only rise as far as their own tallents/potential allow them to. Modern capitalism tends to produce the wealthy, middle class, and poor class division.

Not even the potential exists. Capitalism requires a lower class, because if a corporation or any company is to exist, it's workers need the threat of "if you don't work well, i can always get somebody else" Thus, it requires a base of unemployed workers. That's why the federal government gets worried when the unemployment rate gets too low, although they would never admit that. They simply do not take measures to wipe out unemployment, because the consequences would be dire for a capitalist society.

[Fishteacher73]

There are some that contend that the over-all effect is good though, bumab (Ayn Rand). That the less able also become more able over-time because the bar keeps getting raised, but the relatavistic situation of classes would not be altered.

[paultrr]

When I was young and growing up I rather grew up on the Startrek series. I've found it interesting that under the early series the Federation was more or less a democracy with admixtures of socialism. During the early series they even had pay and money in the form of credits. In the later adaptations of the series(STNG, DS9, Voyager) money and the pursuit of wealth had been done away with basically turning the Federation and at least the Earth World Government system into something akin to a democratic Communism of sorts where everything was distrubuted out to the Federation(State) as a whole.

I've spent time before in countries that can be considered socialists. Personally, I have never had a problem with socialism in general if applied under democratically elected governments. I cannot directly comment of communism since I have never had to chance to experience such. But I have read at least in part some of the founding fathers of communism own thoughts on such. I think the general problem centers on power and how it tends under both capitalism and communism to corrupt. At least when it comes to the more sound complaints about either system.

I would also agree, having meet a few Russians from time to time, that from what I have been able to gather there was a tendency on both sides to color the public perception of the other side. Back when the old Soviet military was going through its equal to our Vietnam over in a country that came back to bite us in the ass, so to speak, it was interesting to note that their youth was having their own protests against the war there and saying a lot of the same things some in our country had done back during Vietnam. I think in general people are people no matter what our Governments would like them to be.

[infamous]

I've had the opportunity to visit East Germany on four different occasions. These visits were conducted while the communists were still in control of the country. I've seen first hand how utterly unfullfilling the communist form of government is, and no theory on what a so called democratic form of communism will ever meet the needs of a free society. I can say with no equivocation that, few if any of those that lived in the former East Germany would choose to go back and live under that communist system. I know because I have personally been witness to the voices and lives of those that have had to endure the communist lie...