A Critical Analysis of Liberalism: Concepts, History, Motivation

[bumab]

That's a pretty pejoritive statement about liberal thinking. If anything, history has shown that most presidents are remembered for what they did, not which party they were in.

[Biochemist]

Originally Posted by bumab

... but you can't move from that statement to the idea that it was all in the idealic goal of democracy throughout the world. Far more likely, given his past actions, that the creation of a democractic beachhead was done in the interests of securing a more stable platform for oil extraction....

This seems a bit of a non sequitur. Bish did not invade Iraq to spearhead democracy generally, and certainly not to secure an oil platform. He did it because he thinks that democracy in the Middle East will stem the tide of terrorism. Further, he think terrorist states should be confronted. It may not work, but that is what he thinks.

He is also in favor of supporting democrats in any location (e.g., having Condi Rice talk tough to the Egyptions from Cairo) but that was not the reason for the Iraq invasion.

You can like Bush or not, but he tends (more than any president in memory) to do exactly what he says.

[Tormod]

Originally Posted by Biochemist

You can like Bush or not, but he tends (more than any president in memory) to do exactly what he says.

Bio, this is a rather strong statement. What Bush says and what he does are two different things. Such is the world of politics. I dare you to make a list of the political goals of the sitting US president and his real agendas for them. It is not possible. Things are more complex than that.

[questor]

i agree with your statement about why presidents are remembered because of their deeds, but i doubt there are many people who would not know to which party they belonged. what i'm really talking about is the thought process that seems to be quite different in different people. this is what compels them to react to issues in opposite ways
and compels them to associate with people of like mind. this difference in thought pattern is the reason we have liberals and conservatives.

[Tormod]

Originally Posted by questor

i agree with your statement about why presidents are remembered because of their deeds, but i doubt there are many people who would not know to which party they belonged

This is a very US-centric view. Most democratic countries have many, many parties. In Norway we have about 8 or 9 large parties. Some countries have so many parties that no party gets a majority vote, and they will have to govern with a minority coalition.

[Biochemist]

Originally Posted by Tormod

...I dare you to make a list of the political goals of the sitting US president and his real agendas for them....

Do keep in mind that I am comparing US presidents to US presidents, not to the man in the street. But Bush's goals are transparent. They are:

1) Revamp social security, consistent with his view of the value of personal ownership
2) Reduce taxes, consistent with his view of the value of personal ownership
3) Prosecute the war on terror by confronting it wherever it exists (as long as the military can afford the extension). In this war he defines countries as either for the US or against the US. This is a stark contrast to his predecessors
4) Support democracy where it can be supported. Bush's support of democracy in Egypt and Saudi Arabia is also a start departure from his predecessors.

Again, you can think this is keenly insighful or absolutely nutty. But this is exactly what Bush says, and repeats, and repeats, and repeats.

It is not reasonable to impute some other motive to Bush. You can dislike the ones he has, but there is no real reason to make up another one to dislike.

[UncleAl]

The blatant shrill anti-Semitism detracts from what is essentially a true thesis: Utopianism was espoused by folk who bloodied their knuckles to achieve success, then wished to grant success free to those who could not be bothered to work for it. Thes results were uniformly disasterous wordwide, from the USSR to Israeli kibbutizm to the Shining Path to the Khmer Rouge. China survived Mao with a giant swerve to the Right, certainly economically.

Liberalism fails when it runs out of other peoples' monies. It's hard to make a comeback when you haven't been anywhere. A child who is not a Liberal has no heart; an adult who is a Liberal has no mind. Conservative government steals from what you have, Liberal government steals from what you might have. The difference is hunger vs. famine.

Best efforts will not substitute for knowledge. The Nanny State cannot substitute for personal responsibilty. "Autoritätsdusel ist der größte Feind der Wahrheit," Albert Einstein.

("The stupor of authority is the greatest enemy of truth")