President George W. Bush

[orbsycli]

I've grown up in a republican family only to peice together over the years i don't agree with my parents.

my father has tried convincing me all of these years that president bush is doing good, and the war is good, and all of this stuff is good.

is he really doing all of this to secure the second largest natural oil reserve? is this war really about war? or is this just what people who are against him say?

as of right now i'm not for or against him, i'm just trying to figure this out.

i just saw photos of soldiers raping iraq women and it was some of the most horrible things i've ever seen.

i don't believe we will ever know the truth about our government, ever. they hide things from us all of the time, so this seems like just another scheme to me. what do you guys think?

[Fishteacher73]

Bush is a puppet. He would have trouble untying his shoes if he did not have direction from someone. If Bush was a man of substance I would at least respect him, but he is not. Bush is a product no more interesting than Spam designed by Carl Rove to gain power for the republican party. The administration has since manipulated 9/11 and stoked the fires of blind nationalism and used this force to justify illegal invasions, unConstitutional "internments", torture deportations and to divert attention from actual issues (both domestic and international).

[C1ay]

I think we have problems running much more deeply through the system than just the man at the top. I'm not really a Bush supporter, IMO he was just the better of 2 evils last time. I don't think we've had any statesmen for a long time. Let's hope the future has some in store for us.

[UncleAl]

Uncle Al is a virulent Conservative somewhat to the political right of Vlad Tepes. That said... President Bush the Lesser is a hole surrounded by a donut. Bush the Lesser is a rich man's idiot son whose destiny is lubricated by an unceasing flow of money to and from "friends." One expects his teleprompter spells out words phonetically.

Bush the Lesser's domestic policy is a disaster. America is in the depths of a terrible economic depression as physical productivity is shipped offshore. The bubble is kept inflated by insane grantings of unsecured credit. The average credit card has $5000 debt at 19% interest. 1929 was engineered in precisely the same manner - massive volumes of overleveraged credit that suddenly imploded. Grocery purchases are now credit card debt!

Bush the Lesser's foreign policy makes "disaster" look like the Garden of Eden. A $trillion - a $trillion that does not exist - was dumped into the Middle East and not one oil well has been conquered. Cheney's buddies at Haliburton burn $100 bills in their winter furnaces.

War can be financed in three ways:

1) Taxation. This was tried after WWI and WWII. The rich revolted. Never again!

2) Inflation. Inflation only pulls money from pockets in America. It devastates pension plans to corporations' delight. Multi-national corporations keep their assets off-shore and not in dollars just before it happens. Remember post-Vietnam, stagflation, and "Whip Inflation Now?" The dollar lost at least 30% of its value, and the sheltered wealthy laughed.

3) A bigger war. "We must all make sacrifices to protect America." Do you imagine the White House or the Houses of Congress were without hard liquor during Prohibition?

Homeland Severity only targets Americans. Unconstitutional illegal search and seizure wthout a court-ordered warrant in the name of "security" is totalitarianism as heavy-handed as the USSR demanding internal passports of its traveling citizens. Have you tried to fly in the US without a passport? BUSH DID IT.

Bush the Lesser is frank stupidity, political horror, and flat out treason almost behond imagination. If one sought an even less able poltroon to screw into the hole, one need venture across the aisle to the Democrats. The whole system is internally rotted as income is redistributed (stolen form those who earn it) and the scum demand ever more boons. Pox Americana.

[Biochemist]

This all seems to be pretty shallow discussion, folks. I am a little surprised.

Orb- Maybe you ought to pick a particular topic (since "republican" does not mean much in terms of policy) and we can start an informed debate. I would suggest we talk about tax policy first if you are interested.

[orbsycli]

meh. i've lost interest. maybe i'm just tired.

[C1ay]

Originally Posted by Biochemist

This all seems to be pretty shallow discussion, folks. I am a little surprised.

I can get plenty of political discussion over at CNet but I'd rather not. Science is more fun....

[Stargazer]

Originally Posted by orbsycli

is he really doing all of this to secure the second largest natural oil reserve?

Not the only reason. If you ask a certain crowd, he did it because of the WMD's, because he was a dictator and because he practically flew the planes into the towers himself. In reality? I'm honestly not sure. But, they can get more control over more oil. They also plan on building military bases over there.

as of right now i'm not for or against him, i'm just trying to figure this out.

If only more people would like to figure out what's really happening rather than just listen to what they already agree with...

One thing that bothers me is that he claims to talk to god, and get advice from him. If this isn't scary, what is? What if he said he was talking to god through the TV? People would think he was joking or that he was utter mad. I'm not sure what difference the addition of a TV would do though. :-)

i just saw photos of soldiers raping iraq women and it was some of the most horrible things i've ever seen.

i don't believe we will ever know the truth about our government, ever. they hide things from us all of the time, so this seems like just another scheme to me. what do you guys think?

I wonder how much some people, especially the average Joes in USA, really knows about the rest of the world. Can they agree with a war in a country they don't even know the location of? Can they have informed opinions on the matter if they honestly think Saddam Hussein initiated the 9/11 attacks? Or if they are fooled by fabricated reports regarding Iraq's WMD's? If they don't know what their country used to do, can they be expected to understand what is going on right now? How many know about their country backing Saddam Hussein to become president, and then sell weapons to him? Likely not many. All too many just keep waving their flags, quoting the constitution while at the same time celebrating Patriot Act, and then think they're funny when they make fun of the French by changing the name of French fries, which was invented in Belgium.

To be fair, all governments have their shady side. My own, for example. It was recently revealed that our secret service cooperated with secret American agents to expel two Egyptians suspected for being terrorists. Then they were imprisoned and tortured in Egypt. All without the normal legal process one might expect from a country like Sweden. Then the government lied about it. They're still in power, btw. I'm not sure if they did it because they thought it would be a good thing to do, or if they were cowards and felt they had to obey the Americans. I'm also not sure which makes me more mad.

[Fishteacher73]

Good old Rummy was the first dignitary to establish open ties with Saddam. Brought him a pair of golden spurs from Regan. YEEEHAW!

[Biochemist]

Originally Posted by orbsycli

is he really doing all of this to secure the second largest natural oil reserve?

This is an unsupportable argument. Oil is fungible. Oil sold anywhere in the world affects prices everywhere in the world. None of this as driven by petroleum isues.