Check yer sources, fool!

[Fishteacher73]

No worries, gubba, input is always valued.

Originally Posted by gubba

Bumab & fishteacher I wonder what you see as your students' primary motivations? Also what would you see as your school's community's (eg. parents, community groups & leaders, local business) primary expectations of their educators? Also, with all the groups, whose rhetoric matches their behaviour the most in your opinion?

Motivation for my students is on a general whole lacking. I work at a low-income low performing school that is predominantly hispanic. (I do not mean to imply that any one of these factors is a cause, but the combination of demographics and performance is an easy correlation if test scores are examined). This school has little or no outside involvement. Primary expectations of the educators is to increase passing rates on the TAKS (Texas Academic Knowledge and Skills). Job retention is largely influenced by pass/fail rates.

As for putting your money where your mouth is...none.

[Fishteacher73]

Originally Posted by bumab

I'm pretty sure the situation in Texas is similar, from what Fish has said. True?

We have had Bush a bit longer down here in Texas. The standardized testing has infiltrated throughout the educational system. They have a version of the TAKS that must be passed every year for the student to be advanced (There are some variances that can be balanced by semester grades). There are variations of the test for ESL and SPecial ed. students. As you said the tests change yearly as well as the specific objectives and as a teacher you do not really know what specificly they have in mind when they state some objectives in such vague terms.

[gubba]

G'day,

Thanks bumab and & Fish. How would you rate your situations re. the notorious 11+ exams of the UK that streamed all primary (elementary?) students into various secondary school systems on the results of a one off curriculum based examination? I've picked up on the fact that education seems to be a state by state responsibility, as here downunder, but I've also been under the impression that schools were also answerable to local authorities, HELP I'm confused? Am I looking at a situation where states finance the infrastructure and co-ordinate the curriculum, while some form of local school authorities see to the running of the schools? Is there some attempt towards national benchmarks? (I'll bet there is rhetorically.) How do you supply your trades? Again I was under the impression that you valued the ideal of a general education rather more than most and put off streaming as far as possible

About student motivation, I wonder if you both would care to hazard a guess as to:
1. What the kids think are the reasons why they are going to school?
2.Which styles of student behaviour gain the respect of the kids and set the tone for the school?
3. What the parents hope their kids might obtain from their schooling?

thanks gub.

[Fishteacher73]

I am a big advocate of the European gymnasium system (Streaming I think is the same... students have the same base education , then for high school, there are exams and it is split into academic and vocational, and so on into university).

In the states, public education is largely funded locally. Only ~ 15% of a districts funding comes from the federal level. This being said, it is a 15% that they are hungry for and will adopt dfederal policies to maintain these funds (Like No Child Left Behind).

As for trades, essentailly they are filled by those that are driven out of school or in many ways a lot of individuals follow the family pattern.

1. Most would not go if they did not have to. Many go because they will have truancy charges if they didn't.

2. This is tricky. It can vary from school to school and demographic variances as well. As a general rule grades and good behavior ARE NOT IT THOUGH.

3. Many parents just want a daycare for their kids.

[gubba]

G'day & thanks Fish,

however I've still got some more questions to ask!
1. What do you mean by local funding? Don't your state gov'ts, eg. Texas, foot some of the bill? Schools are largely a state responsibility downunder, for instance you, as a teacher, would be an employee of a state gov't here unless you deliberately chose to work for the smaller private sector.

2.So your schooling is basically academically focused? So those who can't think academically are seen as dumb?

3.What is a truancy charge? Do you throw people in jail (reformatory) or whatever if they are guilty of truancy? Here in the sadder parts of our town (3 1/2 million thereabouts), there are whole suburbs where the bulk of kids don't really go to school much and not too much is done except notify social services who already know mosty of the families anyway. The kids go from local school to local school, spending most of their time downtown or in the big shopping centres.

4.Many parents here see school as daycare, but most hope that school will somehow, magically get their kids jobs. Even if they don't work most parents hope for jobs for their kids as the only tenable hope of avoiding the drug, booze culture. Unfortunately they do nothing at home to support learning. Nowhere do these kids receive any practical life skills in a formalised setting. cheers gub.

[Fishteacher73]

ALways glad to help when I can , gubba.

1. I am sure there are variances in how schools are funded because they are under state control (As opposed to federal). A decent % comes from state funds, but it is cut up into specific "task related" allocations. ie funds for one project can not be used for another. In Texas a majority of the funds are raised through property taxes. This is balanced by the "Robin Hood" act that takes funds from wealthier schools and distributes it to lower income areas. (This has also proven to be a horid failure).

2. Until high school yes. In high school, some schools offer some basic vocational training. (Cosmotology, auto shop, etc.)

3. Generally truancy charges are a ticket that the parents have to pay. I believe it is the area of about 200 US$. There are minimal attendence requirements for advancement. Usually more that 20 missed days will fail a student.

[Biochemist]

Originally Posted by Fishteacher73

I am a big advocate of the European gymnasium system (Streaming I think is the same... students have the same base education , then for high school, there are exams and it is split into academic and vocational, and so on into university)......

Fish- I think you ought to start a thread with your take on the ideal school system: not so much funding (althouth it is hard to avoid it), but the curricula, the handling of gifted and special, and the role of testing, etc. It would get a lot of attention here.

[gubba]

G'day Fish,

Thanks, alike, yet some significant variations to the situation over here. (I'd like to see anyone attempt to get 200 bucks out of any of our truants' families LOL!) cheers gub.

[majordinkydau]

"Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's
life. Don't be trapped by dogma - which is living with the
results of other people's thinking. Don't let the noise of
other's opinions drown out your own inner voice. And most
important, have the courage to follow your heart and
intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to
become. Everything else is secondary."

-- Steve Jobs, Steve Jobs speech to Stanford Graduating Class
June 2005

"For rulers like to lay down laws and rebels like to break them
and poor priests like to walk in chains and God likes to forsake them"

Incerdible String Band (October song)