Multiculturism And Society

[Fishteacher73]

Originally Posted by tarak

India for ages, has been a multicultural,multilinguistic society and will remain so.There are conflicts and friction between the interaction of such forces in India also,but its sheer diversty and population makes it reselient.

While this may be untrue (I'm not Indian ,nor have I been there), but IMO one thing that in an odd way I feel halps India work is the caste system that from my understanding still in effect. This allows the groups to function independently, yet the structure as a whole is cohesive by design.

Much like (I cannot recall the source of the quote off hand) that it has been stated that the US does not need to be a "melting pot" but a mosaic of individuals fitting together to form a whole.

[questor]

QF, by your logic there would be no reason to quarantine people from foreign countries bringing in the Ebola virus. so your view is that since it is happening, just sit back and let it happen? since it is complex, don't bother to discuss it? i am doing something, i'm bringing up a topic about activities that may destroy our country as we know it.

[Qfwfq]

Originally Posted by questor

QF, by your logic there would be no reason to quarantine people from foreign countries bringing in the Ebola virus.

How do you get that from what I said?

[questor]

you said:
''There isn't just some simple solution. People need to learn to live together. Criminality that comes with immigration is due to causes more complex than just the immigration itself, it isn't a reason to be against immigration.''
what does this mean to you? if immigration is ok, how do you stop the bad guys coming in with the good? how do you stop diseased people coming in with the healthy? how do you stop the terrorists?

[nemo]

Originally Posted by questor

...one might resonably ask; What are the rewards of our multicultural society?

Indeed - this is a reasonable question; however, the answer would be much better illustrated by a study of nations that have attempted to avoid multicultural societies. People migrate for any number of reasons - that is something that will not change without at least the threat of forceful consequences (i.e. constructing a wall in the middle of Berlin and mining the area around it). Present day efforts at producing a society that is not multicultural have all resulted in the attempted extermination of the minority deemed 'unworthy' (replacing the term genocide with the politically correct phrase 'ethnic cleansing' is almost as big a crime as the act itself). Despite the best efforts of people who will probably never leave their air conditioned offices unless it's an election year, people will never just 'get along'. Welcome to the down side of free will (yeah, there's a whole other conversation to be had regarding free will and determinism, but that's not really the point of this post).

are there any benefits we get from our loose immigration policy?

I'd be willing to bet a few of your ancestors would think so, unless they are presently occupying small plots of real estate on one of our Indian reservations.

are there benefits from the presence of Muslims?

And now we've crossed from reasonable questions to social elitism. This line of thinking brought the world wonderful responses to the same question by replacing Muslims with Jews and Hutus. If you are really interested in why people calling themselves Muslims fly planes into buildings, I suggest you investigate the factions claiming responsibility for these actions. Al Queda and the Taliban represent Islam in the same fashion that the KKK represents Christianity. At the very minimum, get your news from multiple international sources; each will have a spin representative of its indigenous population - the truth lies somewhere between the cyclones.

are there benefits from the presence of illegal immigrants from south of the border?

Despite the fact that I rant about public funding going to people who are not paying taxes and are actively breaking the law, there is something very important about the presence of illegal immigrants that many people overlook: American society could not support itself without the legions of people willing to work in horrible conditions for pitiful pay. Suppose we decide to actually shut the borders and deport every illegal immigrant. Every construction worker in southern California now demands decent pay and benefits - construction stops. Ever farm hand now demands decent pay and benefits - prices for everything from fruit to milk go through the roof and crops rot on the vine / stalk / tree. Illegal immigrants are willing to put themselves through things most Americans wouldn't dream of, and we rail against them (right after they've finished bagging our groceries, of course).

are there benefits from rap music

Have you actually listened to rap music, or even read the lyrics for any number of the songs? I don't personally prefer the genre, but I have no problem listening to a number of rap artists. If you choose to look, there is an incredible amount of depth in the works of more than a few artists. There are, of course, rappers who espouse the virtues of criminal activity, bling bling, and promiscuity; what you might find interesting are the parallels between rap music and country / western music. The growing number of artists teaming up from those two genres is not an accident - the subject matter is almost identical.

After thinking about this for a bit, I find myself wondering where the origins of moder rap music lie. Was rap imported? I thought it was an American product. Perhaps we should revoke citizenship on the basis of "un-American activities"... line up the entertainers, it's time to repeat history.

...ghetto english...

I don't like ebonics. I think it makes people who may understand English sound as if they don't. Of course, I didn't like the way my children spoke after an extended stay with their grandparents in Texas either - warsh is not a word, and thray does not precede four. Upon reflection, the residents of northern Ohio tend to remove a few of the consonants in the middle of particularly long words; that's always bothered me. As soon as I find the immigrant that did all this, I'm going to beat him sensless.

...drive-by shootings...

Aren't the victims of drive-by shootings primarily those people speaking "ghetto english" you mentioned? I may have missed your point on this.

...anti education activities...

This describes the majority of my childhood.

...and constant racial tensions?

That are caused by public sentiment that mirrors the original post in this thread. It seems that the poor, the immigrants, the minorities, the Muslims and the rappers are not the only people who are in need of an education.

[EWright]

Originally Posted by questor

The USA prides itself on being the melting pot of the world. we have welcomed people from all countries, religions and cultures for many years. in looking at current events in the world such as terrorism by Muslims, demands upon our educational and welfare systems by illegal aliens, our continuing race problems, one might resonably ask; W hat are the rewards of our multicultural society? are there any benefits we get from our loose
immigration policy? are there benefits from the presence of Muslims? are there benefits
from the presence of illegal immigrants from south of the border? are there benefits from
rap music, ghetto english, drive-by shootings, anti education activities and constant racial tensions?

Has the U.S. benefited by trailer parks? KKK rallies? Lynchings? Serial killers? The Oklahoma City bomber? Watergate? Priests raping little boys? Police brutality? The rich getting richer? Heavy Metal music? Trench-coat killers (Columbine), Drunken frat parties, the slaughter of Native Americans by white settlers?, slavery imposed by white settlers?, Motorcycle gangs?, George Bush^2? I'd say that combining these issues with the ones you posted should all cancel each other out and leave America a paradise to behold.... That or perhaps we should all leave and return the land to the Indians who seemed to be doing pretty well with it on their own.

[Skippy]

Originally Posted by nemo

Indeed - this is a reasonable question; however, the answer would be much better illustrated by a study of nations that have attempted to avoid multicultural societies. People migrate for any number of reasons - that is something that will not change without at least the threat of forceful consequences (i.e. constructing a wall in the middle of Berlin and mining the area around it). Present day efforts at producing a society that is not multicultural have all resulted in the attempted extermination of the minority deemed 'unworthy' (replacing the term genocide with the politically correct phrase 'ethnic cleansing' is almost as big a crime as the act itself). Despite the best efforts of people who will probably never leave their air conditioned offices unless it's an election year, people will never just 'get along'. Welcome to the down side of free will (yeah, there's a whole other conversation to be had regarding free will and determinism, but that's not really the point of this post).

I think you have misunderstood the point of view of many who are opposed to multi-culturalism.

A mutli-cultrual society is fine...that is what made the U.S. the great country it is - everyone here who is not of Native American decent is from somewhere else. (The Native Amercians were doing fine, but they were FAR behind the European continent and had they not been conquered then, they surely would have been a few years later) The problem entered when 'multiculturalism' became a new way of segregating society. Whereas the segregation of the past has been condemned, and rightly so, segregation is being hailed as a great thing in the form of multiculturalism. Students are taught that the Mexican way of life is as good as the Sudanese way of life, which is as good as the Iraqi which is as good as the Russian which is as good as the South African which is as godd as the German or French, et al.... and nothing is mentioned about the fact that if those places were so great, there would be no Iraqis or Mexicans or Sudanese or Viet Namese or Chinese who refuse to assimilate into an English speaking society. The best points of those cultures are mentioned while the reasons for their emigrating from those countries are ignored. This new mantra at the same time states that the American way of life is one of greed and environmental indifference - that is nothing more than neo-communism rearing its ugly head.

[questor]

when considering the advantages of multi culturalism it might be insightful to weigh the advantages of having a particular culture in our society against the problems incurred by having the disadvantages of that culture present. for instance, we must weigh the advantage of a group harvesting our crops cheaply against the murderous gangs which
are now causing such mayhem around the Washington DC area. the need for welfare, child care, special educational facilities, demands for bilingual street names, legal documents, government workers, etc., and the non payment of taxes. is this a good deal for our society?
in addition, we have a sub-culture that is anti-education, has a large drug culture, prefers welfare to workfare, speaks an unintelligble dialect of english, provides us with half our prison inmates, most of our out of wedlock children, and sets a very poor example in personal dress, music and deportment. can all this be blamed on something that ended
over 145 years ago? also, can something like this be discussed on a rational level?
i guess some people accept whatever happens in society as OK. i would say that
cultures being introduced now dilute and confuse the orderliness of our society and
are the base problems for lawlessness, loss of morality, failing families and a failing educational system.

[Fishteacher73]

Originally Posted by questor

i would say that cultures being introduced now dilute and confuse the orderliness of our society and are the base problems for lawlessness, loss of morality, failing families and a failing educational system.

Ahh...The white mans burden...Good thing that the mediterainian cultures intoduced such concepts to the Europeans when they conqured them...

[questor]

why is terrorist activity a ''white mans burden''? what color were the victims of 9/11?
what color are the innocent Iraqis? what color were the innocents of Indonesia? what does a comment like that mean? what about black on black crime in our own black communities?
can this be sloughed off as the ''white man's burden'' ?