Hi again Buffy, and thanks for your observations. I will try to deal with them one at a time.
‘We've seen a mere handful (Of my ideas and scenarios), and they seem to be somewhat esoteric and punitive’
Can you be more specific on this point please? Everything I have written about is, I believe, in the best interest of humanity. ‘Punitive’ indicates punishment, and I do not in any way, shape or form condone any punishment for any human being. What I say about people who inflict violence on any other person once we have evolved, is that they should be removed from general society so that they can commit no further damage to any other human being, until they are deemed fit to re-enter society as non-violent, non abusive human beings... and while they are kept out of the general population, they should be treated with the same love and kindness that they would get in the general society. Does THAT sound punitive to you? or does it sound like the kindest, most humane action we can undertake in that situation, to protect ALL of us?
‘I would hope you would have more to show for this five years and nine months than what you've printed so far here. It would be nice of course if you would expose some of this list in responding to the objections that point out the inadequacy of your plan rather than making vague allusions to how you either "have it all figured out" or that "there are smart people who can come up with that solution"...’
I have answered this point many times, but I’ll do it again. I hope you can grasp it this time...
In a nutshell I am FOR everything that is good for our bodies and souls. Music, dancing, singing, good food, good working conditions, clean air and water, as much free time as we can afford to pay ourselves, whilst still keeping the wheels of production, care and service turning.
I am FOR pristine wilderness, as much as we can afford
I am FOR bicycles for all who want them.
I am FOR fast, free, modern, safe, fuel efficient public transport to wherever on this planet we need or want to go.
I am FOR providing ourselves with the best housing and civic amenities we can imagine and build.
I am FOR providing the raw materials and expertise to any of us who want to improve our skills in whatever hobbies or interests we may choose, so long as the end product is not harmful to yourself or humanity in general. In other words, for example, I would be AGAINST providing you with a course in producing and administering crack cocaine, or anything of a similar ilk.
What do YOU think you won’t be able to do in my world that you will miss so much?
What is it YOU think is SO useful to humanity that we have to keep war, taxes, starvation, malnutrition, curable diseases, gambling, crime, debt, hatred, fear and torture in existence on this planet as a means to pay for it?
Because when you choose to keep using money and property ownership of any kind as the true worth of a human being, you get to keep all of the above. Automatically.
We have them all now, so it must be true mustn’t it?
Can I BE any clearer on this?
Perhaps you can guide me to anywhere my answers appear ‘esoteric’, they just seem like basic common sense to me.
So if this question occurs to you again, please read and understand my comments above, and I am sure you will instinctively KNOW my answer. It won’t change.
There will always be some ‘grey areas’ as to what to keep as a society, and what to dispense with. These can be dealt with very quickly after the event, on a case by case basis. Using common sense, logic and all available information.
I promise you, I am not hiding anything sinister. There will be no death camps, or midnight shootings or hangings. Just a liberal sprinkling of good old horse sense as to what we consider to be good and bad for humanity.
If you want my opinion of specific cases, please ask, specifically, and I will answer, specifically, as I did for Zythryn. However, I should reiterate, the answers I give are entirely my personal opinion.
There may be areas where humanity in general comes up with surprising validations for many types of equipment and activities which may currently be construed as ‘dangerous’ or ‘life enhancing’.
The decisions made will be made by panels of experts in each field, therefore any guidance I give can only be regarded as general guidance at this time. I specifically DON’T say that we have to do this or that, because those would be the actions of a narrow minded dictator. I am open minded enough to recognise that mankind will surprise me with the suggestions and ideals you come up with. It will be YOUR world for a lot longer than it will be mine, which is why coming generations will take decisions over matters I cannot foresee. If I lay down absolute rules now, I will remove the flexibility required for future decision making.
The only recommendations I can, and have made, are in the general rules we have to abide by to make this evolution possible.
‘
Originally Posted by Peacemaker
I know what is good for me, and what is bad for me. I have merely extrapolated that to the rest of humanity.
‘And this is the biggest fundamental weakness in your "solution:" you have framed the entire scenario around your worldview and have considered no one else's. ‘
Perhaps you can guide me to any work that has considered the immediate and long term requirements of more of our whole species than I have. You could try reading this document to learn about the realities of the world as it is today, and their hopes for some of their proposals to come about at some time during this century.
“United Nations Reform: measures and proposals — A Millennium Assembly, the United Nations system (Special Commission) and a Millennium Forum”
Where the Secretary-General of the UN expressed the view that if the United Nations were to continue to play a vital role in the century ahead it would be imperative that it benefit from the imagination and engage the support of the world’s people. In this connection, he proposed that non-governmental organizations and other civil society actors organize a Millennium Forum in connection with the Millennium Assembly.
It’s on the net. Here’s the shortcut:
http://www.un.org/millennium/declaration.htm
Try reading THAT, Buffy, and see, perhaps, that it’s not just me that is speaking the truth about the world as it currently is. Than document was formulated and ratified by ‘the 1,350 representatives of over 1,000 non-governmental organizations and other civil society organizations from more than 100 countries’.
I hope you read this, and then go back and read what I have written so far on this subject. I don’t believe it will be a waste of your time.
’That you find it simple to suppress your own "dark side" does not mean that simple "general agreement" makes it go away for everyone.’
No, but it WILL make it go away for billions more of us than our current strategies do, so on that fact alone, it MUST be worth it.
’Asking me what "dark side urges" I want to keep is simply a rhetorical mechanism for shaming me into admitting that any I have are bad, but it unfortunately is poor cover for your lack of a solution for how you will eliminate the "dark sides" of everyone, not just people as nice as I am.’
No Buffy, it’s just a simple question. I wanted you to be specific here. I’ll ask it again. What dark side urges are you specifically referring to? Because, as I have said again and again, if you don’t physically or mentally hurt yourself, or any other member of society, or our environment, then my view is to do ‘whatever floats your boat’.
The fact that you construed my question as ‘simply a rhetorical mechanism for shaming me into admitting that any I have are bad’ is simply an incorrect assumption on your part.
‘but it unfortunately is poor cover for your lack of a solution for how you will eliminate the "dark sides" of everyone, not just people as nice as I am.’
This statement indicates to me that you have taken absolutely nothing of what I have written on board. If you consider, for example, ending poverty, ending war, ending crime, ending starvation, ending malnutrition and dramatically reducing world child mortality over a matter of weeks a ‘lack of a solution’ on the road to eliminating the ‘dark sides’ of humanity, then come up with better ones, or at least take the time to fully understand the scope of those which you argue against.
‘What guidelines? Still waiting...’
Did you actually read the document I wrote? You know, the one with all the ‘guidelines’ in it?
’Saying its "not your call" is equivalent to saying "its not important enough for me to worry about
: there are smart people who will deal with the problems I've created by my overly simplistic solution."’
I think I covered this earlier in this answer.
‘Generally" certainly is a loaded term, isn't it?
Sure, most people obey the laws, but the point is *many people do not*.
Your thesis is that simply by eliminating "money" all such problems would go away, and it would be nice if you were to explain *why* you think that is the case, beyond "it was obvious to me, and I'm a rational person, so it should be obvious to everyone else."’
Generally, means the same as ‘most’, which you used in the next line, where you agreed with me. ‘Sure, most people obey the laws...’.
I used the word ‘generally’ to indicate my acknowledgement of the common and obvious fact that there are, indeed, some who do not obey the laws at present.
My immediate goal is to absolutely minimise the numbers of these people who are still able to commit most crimes. This will happen by a process called ‘criminal disablement’, whereby, once my plan is enacted, thieves, burglars, muggers and bank robbers will have nothing of value to steal. So they will just stop. Unless they are criminally insane, and then medical professionals would step in to organise humane treatment to help them ‘evolve’.
...unless you can come up with a better plan?
‘If one is going to propose solutions, it is one's responsibility to consider *all* of the ramifications, obstacles, and side-effects for those solutions and address them’.
I have.
...and I still stand by my original assertion that I don’t have to come up with all the answers to bring this into being. Humanity has all the talent and commonsense it requires to come up with the best workable solutions to the problems which may befall us in the future. My task is to guide us to a more evolved way of thinking about problems, and endeavouring to cure them at source, and not continue ‘firefighting’ the consequences of maintaining an essentially corrupt system.
’Simply being an "idea guy" is pretty much worthless’.
Thanks for that Buffy, so on the same scale, what would that make a clueless, selfish, small minded ‘marketeer’ worth?
Follow the Id yourself. It appears to be more your style than mine. (;-)
Best regards, as always,
Peacemaker.
Unpleasant but necessary jobs, compulsion, and bicycles
