America the myth

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

First off Mr.Turtle with regard to all of your above posts

Questor with regard to-

DD and Turtle, correct me if I'm wrong:
You dislike the American government? You dislike many things about America? You dislike religious people? You are not pleased with the way things are going in the States? You don't think religion should be practiced in public? You continue to live here even though you are angry.
What are the things that give you pleasure in life, and where have you found them?

Yup...Yup...Mostly with a very few exceptions...Yup....never said that, nor would I, No more than I would allow them to tell me I can't exercise my rights regarding religion in public ( A bit of irony you might appreciate...I used to be a pastor at a local baptist church.)...you apparently haven't read the whole thread as you would already have known how I would answer to that [ kinda sorta quoted from a previous post of my own in this thread "love this country hate the Govt."]

We have some of the most beautiful forests, best state and national parks, and besides it would be kinda hard to move all my family and friends to another country.

Our national and state parks, music (performing and listening), painting, writing, reading, making metal, earth and glass do my bidding, motorcycling, biking, hiking, camping, cooking, driving, pleasant conversation, hangin out with my wife, playin with my computer, watching movies, hangin out with my grandkids, fishin, designing machinery, watching machinery work, recycling dead machines\appliences into new things which have a different function or function differently from original design....I could go on and on but you get the point I hope.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Originally Posted by charles brough

DEFINITELYDISTURBED, Please look back at your post and notice that the points you make are all bickering. Sure the politicians lie. It is because they have to make impossible promises in order to get elected. You don't vote for those people, however, you are different. The voters are wrong so you believe that voting, democratic systems are wrong? . . .that corporations are more honest and hence we don't need government to regulate them? And since government leaders have money does that mean they are as affluent and classist as the CEOs of corporations? Or are you just in a bad mood today . . . ?

OK then.............................................. ..................................................
I don't even know where to begin with this.....so I wont.....crap already did......d@mn my attempt to be polite with at least some sort of reply......well fine then I just wont finish with this..............BTW never said that democracy was wrong...never said voting was wrong...have said many times that this mess is the fault of voters and therefore not my fault as I didn't put the idiots that made it into office...

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Oh yeah one more thing....
Mr Questor please use quote thingy when quoting.....would make your post much easier to read.:doh!:

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Sorry Moonman.....almost forgot bout you...
almost.

I don't like the battle between religion and science, I think it's a fools errand that will only hurt both sides in the long run but so far the only way to make this running battle go away is for one side to surrender and I don't think that is going to happen.

. No hope for that...there is no way for them to coexist. But one way to reduce the heat of the battle would be for the Govt. to extend to science the same protection it offers religion with regard to defamation and discrimination....after fair is fair...treat vandalism on a scientific or medical facility by religious zealots as a hate crime, same as for instance a sinagog vandalised by neo-nazis.. etc.etc.

[questor]

DD, I'm happy you have found some things to like in your own country. In reading most of the posts here, I had begun to think that the USA was nothing but a den of thieves, robbers and miscreants. If you really want to appreciate the US, live in a foreign country for awhile to get the real flavor. Too bad all Americans can't do that, it would work wonders on their appreciation meter. Maybe the next time your fellow posters and countrymen want to pile on the US, you could remind them of the good things we have. If you are not pleased with our government, is it because they have screwed you, thwarted your ambitions, haven't given you something you deserve, or you just don't like authority? Keep in mind, all countries have governments.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

You miss the whole issue.

The American Govt screwing those it was built to serve extends alllllllllllll the way back to the beginning.

With a long list of lipservice rights which are still continually being whittled away.

In a country where all men were created equal blacks had no rights and native americans were euthanized in the name of expansion and progress.

In a nation where you have the right to own property you will never actually own your property....Name one other thing which you own but must still pay for every year and which increases in cost to continue to possess it as time goes by.

Etc. Etc...

We'd have one hell of a good govt. If they'd merely live up to the beliefs and documents it was founded upon. (minus the racism)....Which our govt. has yet to ever do....hence my extreme disdain for Unca Scam.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

I look at the promise of what america "is" as presented to the average bloke from preschool on is much akin to being told you've won a pleasure cruise only to discover upon setting sail that your "cruise" will actually amount to you scraping paint in the bilge for the duration much to the "pleasure" of the ships captain and owners.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

If good christians go to heaven when they die why they want to live?
If you have absolute faith in your religion and that in an afterlife things will be better than in this life... why morn for the deceased? Why fear death? Why want to prolong miserable existance here instead of doing your best to get to the good part?

These are the questions which confuse me about religious folk....cuz it just doesn't make sence to me.

A Christian should celebrate the death of a loved one as they would celebrate a birth if they truly believe.

A christian should never fear for their lives if they truly believe.

A christian should be glad when they here they will soon die from cancer (after all you're goin to heaven right?)

Sorry but with all the mention of religion above I just had to bring up the most valid arguments I have against religious BS.

BTW I firmly believe in separation of church, state, and science and do hereby on this the 17th day of December 2008 issue a restraining order barring religion from coming to within 500 meters of science, govt., encourage it to seek professional help and common sense.

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by questor

Moon, your quote: '' I think he Conservatives fear of giving their money to the poor is a smoke screen for people who are stingy and fear the lower classes.''
Who do you think are the major philanthropists in this country? I can give you a clue, the Rockefellers, Mellons, Carnegies, Gates and Buffets are not poor. Not all of them are conservative either, but I think they would agree that earning your own money is better than a handout. America does have a wealth disparity. How did the rich get rich? Figure that out and follow the same principles, maybe you'll get the same result. Why do the poor remain poor? Look at what they do and how they act and the decisions they make, doesn't that give you the answer?
What would you say is the best way to even the playing field? Would it be to make the rich pay more, or would it be to empower the poor to earn more? When you rob the rich to give to the poor, what do you get? Do you get a better society or do you get what we have now, a society that seems to hate their own country and thinks it is cool to refuse to pledge allegiance to it or honor its traditions?
The new administration will show us a different form of governing that will probably lean further toward socialism. Maybe that will please some people who have not made it with capitalism. We no longer have the United States, we have the Fragmented States and half the country seems to think it is good. I think any system which does not encourage and enable a person to be the best he can be will be left behind in the new global society.

You didn't really read my post did you questor? How much further can we go with socialism? We are already a socialist country, we have bailed out the rich and greedy, why not a few of the poor. I have never stated that i like the idea of giving money to the poor, I like to help the poor, giving them money but nothing else is not helping. Read my post questor, all of it with out your red glasses.

I think any system which does not encourage and enable a person to be the best he can be will be left behind in the new global society

I think i already said that, now if we can just stop socializing the rich and powerful maybe we can get something done.

[questor]

DD, I would put more weight to your complaints if you had actually lived in places like the USSR, Cuba, Rwanda, China, India or actually any other countries of the world to see how you like their method of governance. It's hard to compare if you have no experience to compare to. Our main problem ,as I see it, is crooked politicians and other perps. Our punishments are not severe enough. If Bernie Madoff had pulled his scam in China, I doubt his head would still sit atop his body. It is not the system, it is the way people learn to game it. It's the same with religion or many other endeavors--they seem to work well until the crooks get involved. If you know a better system than capitalism, let's hear it. If you can have a better life in another country, which one is it?