What's better than punishment?

[HydrogenBond]

The criminal lives by a different sets of laws than lawful people. On the streets those who kill, for example the mobsters, are willing to kill and die for their cause. They try to survive as long as possible but are prepared for the worse, thereby using preemptive strikes. We should use their code to judge them. The lawful code should only be used for lawful people who have a periodic bout with the law.

If we do away with the death penalty, here is the math. We give the murderer a million dollars for room, board and attendents. The family of the victim gets sh*t. Wouldn't it be better to give the family of victim the million dollars and murderer gets sh*t. He should earn his way and cost society zero. Making murderers millionares is an excellent deterrent.

[ughaibu]

HydrogenBond: What you say about mobsters could equally be said of police or militia-men. The question of which of these sides, no matter where the law might stand, is considered "right" is a matter of opinion. Generally speaking, mobsters dont make an habitual practice of kidnapping or killing police.

[InfiniteNow]

It's been proposed that if we did away with poverty, then the symtoms of said poverty would also go away. Sure... sounds good. We also know that many violent acts are a result of internal cravings and desires, as well as passion. If we were to somehow isolate which cravings and desires tended to result in things like murder and rape, and satisfy those cravings and desires in some more positive way, would that be enough to stop such crimes? Hence, preventing the crime and eliminating the question of punishment all together?

[anglepose]

give good people money from bad people or would that promote robbery
This ones got me stuffed

[InfiniteNow]

Come on TheBigDog... you know you want in...

[Panjandrum]

What about crime commited by people who aren't hungry, or socially deprived, who simply commit crimes because its easy, or for the lulz? Gaol is a suitable detterent for them, since it is a direct punishment. anything else would be a waste of time.

[TheBigDog]

Originally Posted by InfiniteNow

Come on TheBigDog... you know you want in...

Tomorrow night. I promise.

Bill

[Turtle]

A discipline anecdote:

When I actively taught swimming at a YMCA, a local university contracted with us to teach swimming to a group of children with severe behavior problems. The fella (call him Joe) running the program was working on his Phd & the kids were the subjects.
We instructors first had to meet with Joe in order for him to instruct us on how the program worked. Essentially it was based on a reward system with no punishments. Every child received gold stars for doing even the slightest thing 'right', such as brushing their teeth, following an instruction etc.. In order to get to do anything outside normal routine, the child had to have earned a certain number of rewards.
I saw very few bad behaviors by these children, but then if they were even in class it was because they had earned it with good behaviors.
I think overall, each individual case needs consideration on its own merit & that sometimes punishment is called for when other methods fail. I think people in prison need work of some kind to do so that they learn to discipline themselves as well as contribute economically.

[InfiniteNow]

It's actually better to use something called variable schedule positive reinforcement. Essentially, give rewards, but don't do it every time the behavior is engaged in. Make variable your presentation of the reward, so the motivation becomes less extrinsic (I do good things so I can get a reward) and more intrinsic (I was rewarded for good things, now I do them because it's habit and it's right).

I am completely in line with that thinking...

Problem is, how to implement it on a societal level and prevent the crime in the first place? I was approaching this concept tentatively in Post #13, but wanted to avoid steering the dialogue too much.

[J.B]

Here is a story of a women named Raechale Elton, who used to think just like you, InfiniteNow.

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635185438,00.html