Illegal Immigration

[Buffy]

[puts Economist hat on]
Immigration is good. It allows for more efficient labor markets. It allows for faster economic growth with a much lower risk of rampant inflation.

Illegal immigration is bad: if immigration is limited far below demand, you will end up with the immigrants moving the money they earn *out* of our own economy and it will avoid being taxed.

Temporary visas are bad: We spend the money on training the temporary workers and then we send all that training back across the border when their visas run out.

[puts Sociologists hat on]

Communications and transportation are eliminating *cultural* barriers. They have for years. Californians are invading Idaho and Eastern Washington and diluting the bigot brigade there that is already a minority. Boy are they pissed. National barriers are crumbling too. Are you mad about Mexicans coming across the border? What about ownership of US corporations that is going offshore thanks to a *conservative* government.

There are no borders any more. Get over it.

We don't need no steeking visas!
Buffy Villa

[Buffy]

Oh I *love* that movie!

They're kissing again. Do we have to read the kissing parts?
Buffy

[InfiniteNow]

Maybe we could call the Brute Squad to assist us on this freakishly overwhelming border issue about which everyone is so concerned.

*Get out of here or I'll call the Brute Squad!

#I'm on the Brute Squad.

<looks him up and down>
*You ARE the Brute Squad.

[soulatom]

Originally Posted by Racoon

I should go on a Seattle Style Rampage!!

I should be seeing solutions...???

This is a heavily loaded issue, which is not going to go away.
It is global in extent.
Much of Europe is also struggling with it.
As the numbers grow, the political fall-out in the future looms large.

The economic argument for banning illegal immigration is simple enough.

It takes away jobs from legal residents and over-loads the infrastructure with aliens who pay no taxes for its upkeep.
Building walls and campaigning for more police to patrol the border is the current American government policy.
Amnesty, which was first granted in the late 1980's is up for review again. It has the advantage of registering aliens in the tax base.

The moral argument is more complex.

If there was no work at all, Mexicans would not come in the first place. And what's the difference in a Mexican working here, are they too not trying to earn a decent living?
They take the most menial jobs at below the legal wage.
Forced repatriation splits families who have children born on American soil and are therefore legal citizens.
By not making a big issue out of it, America retains goodwill with a close neighbor.

Question 1. Is it morally right to deny work to impoverished neighbors?
Question 2. Is the current policing policy the right approach?
Question 3. Is amnesty the right answer?
Question 5. If none of the above are right, what other suggestions are out there?

[InfiniteNow]

Originally Posted by soulatom

Question 5. If none of the above are right, what other suggestions are out there?

My question is this: What's question #4?

[pgrmdave]

Illegal doesn't mean immoral, so don't try to equate the two. Why shouldn't we just make it insanely easy to come legally?

Is it the United States Responsibility to provide Mexicans with jobs and social services?? No thats the responsibility of the Mexican Gov't!
They obviously need to be doing more! not U.S. doing more.

Actually, it's the responsibility of the free market, not the government. Reread the Constitution, it's not in there.

However hardworking illegal immigrants are when they come here, the moment they become citizens, they will be immediately demagogued by Democrats into viewing welfare as a universal human right, just as they now view living in America.

Prove it or admit that there is no basis for this statement.


Many of our ancestors came here looking for work. There's nothing wrong with that. They shouldn't work outside the system, we should provide an easy way for them to become citizens, so that they can become a part of this great nation.

"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door"

These are the people we should want to come here. We should desire those who no other country wants, because we know that all men and women are created equal, and deserve equal rights, liberties, and freedoms - no matter where they were born.

[InfiniteNow]

Originally Posted by Racoon

Whatever dream world you're living in, I want to illegally live there too pgrmdave
...
Prove it? --- (actually lets see you disprove it.. its part of the article.. its a theory, one that could be tested if this goes through)

Sorry Rac, you should know by now that this is not how it works. You made the claim, you provide the support.

[InfiniteNow]

Originally Posted by Racoon

Please lets not begin again InfiniteNow.. You can live in a fantasy world too.
Its part of the article!

So, Poor Mexicans wouldn't try and sign up for and receive welfare if they could?
The statement is hypothetical, and not unrealistic at that.

What about the other points?

Answer the questions posed to you already, then we'll move on to your "other points."

[TheBigDog]

Rac, I would suggest you go back and edit your post to put the excerp from Anne's article in quotes. It appears now to be your own statement, and thus the need to personally back it up. She is a professional political writer and is held to a different standard of proof than might be required here.

Bill

[Cedars]

Originally Posted by pgrmdave

Illegal doesn't mean immoral, so don't try to equate the two. Why shouldn't we just make it insanely easy to come legally?

Many of our ancestors came here looking for work. There's nothing wrong with that. They shouldn't work outside the system, we should provide an easy way for them to become citizens, so that they can become a part of this great nation.

"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door"

These are the people we should want to come here. We should desire those who no other country wants, because we know that all men and women are created equal, and deserve equal rights, liberties, and freedoms - no matter where they were born.

Why in the world do you think we should make it easy for them to become citizens? Just a reminder, the "give me your tired...." is an inscription on the bottom of a statue created by the french on their own, as a gift and has no bearing on the laws of the land it is displayed on. The opinion that we have any obligation to import to america, anyone who so desires, diminishes where the real effort should be, and that is in making each and every country desireable to live in on their own merits, by diplomatically trying to ensure the freedoms and rights we have, in all other countries. Lets send them back to Mexico and let them put pressure on their government for reform. It is an elected government in Mexico, not a brutal dicatorship or tyranny.

Economic reasons for coming here are available for people to apply for legally. Its not like foriegn workers cannot apply so there are legal methods available.

No we should not reward those who have violated the laws of this land for profit driven reasons by accepting them into the citizenship of this nation. Let them go thru the existing channels for that opportunity.