Family Values: Incest

[MagnetMan]

Originally Posted by Tormod

Your reply is not satisfactory, and does not say what you intend to do with the material you collect. If you wish to use our forums for collecting scientific data, please be open about what it it will be used for, and how.

You are fronting incest as a perfectly acceptable phenomenon, something which is a legal opinion to hold but incest is a highly illegal act to carry out (no matter what your opinion about it is).

There may be members here who are deeply offended at your posts and particularly at your defence of people who commit incest.

Whether the replies you get are "dispiriting" is of no interest to me. I am concerned about your extreme bias in this issue. It seems to me that you are asking for information that is in support of incest. It is something that will not be accepted here.

I therefore ask for a justification for the existence of this thread, or I will ask the administrators to delete it.

Whatever ulterior motives any may think I have, the salient question about incest remains. Do we treat it like homosexuality once was, to remain in the closet until people start marching in the street? Or do we look at it - objectively or subjectively - and who is to decide on THAT. We have seen what damage hiding family skeletons do in the end. I believe that no matter what anybody tries to do on bring this subject to light, it is better than none at all. I made it pretty obvious from my first post that I am in favor of revising the ban on incest. Not so as that we can just go ahead and abuse it - but because I think the ban is doing more harm to children than good. If that sounds too unconventional for your taste then so be it. In my opinion we should graduate beyond this current teen mentality that our culture is locked into, and assume our global responsibilities as adults and deal with issues like adults and concerned parents. We need to stop the pseudo-intellectual nonsense that goes on in most of thse forums in which it is all talk and no walk.. I am an old man with a wealth of personal life experiences, most of them difficult and hard-won. I am ethically bound to teach what i know to be true. While most here, judging from their replies, are still youngsters with a lot to learn. And if you or any one else on this forum finds that last statement objectionable, my case is made.

The thread has shown so far, that there is no real concern for the effect of incest on children. Which is in itself already significant. If you wish to delete this subject before more views are put on record, that is up to you. I have no power to stop you and you may dictate what is said on this forum as you will. Your response, including the ban if that is your decision, will remain in my documentary records in any event. I have a resident class of bright young scholars who keep copies of everything I post and they read every thing I am responded to in turn. With them as a constant witness, I am naturally always careful of exactly what I say and why I say it. I am certain that I have not crossed any ethical boundary. I have not tried to coerse any one to my point of view. Nor do i intend to doctor or alter in any way any response I have received. Documenting life as it is, whether on film or on any public forum, has been my business for fifty years. Lies are not the kind of legacy I intend to leave behind me. As a spiritual person, I believe every act is registered on eternal Akashic record anyway. So do what you think is right.

[infamous]

Originally Posted by MagnetMan

It is obvious that I am in favor of revising the ban on incest.

That's right, it was becoming very obvious.

Originally Posted by MagnetMan

I am an old man with a wealth of personal life experiences, most of them difficult and hard-won.

I'm 63 years of age myself and I don't think you have anything on me friend.

Originally Posted by MagnetMan

I am ethically bound to teach what i know to be true. While most here, judging from their replies, are still youngsters with a lot to learn.

And you, blessed with all this truth are going to teach us about reality...................give me a break!

Originally Posted by MagnetMan

And if you or any one else on this forum finds that last statement objectionable, my case is made.

The only case being made here is: You have some strange agenda's

Originally Posted by MagnetMan

I am certain that I have not crossed any ethical boundary.

Yes sir, you do know how to walk that tight rope don't you.

I have a suggestion. Take a poll of the American people; Ask them what they think about incest. I believe you'll find the answer for why it is illegal and just as important, socially disgusting. If you are really so concerned about the children, you would understand why these laws were written in the first place...........Infy

[MagnetMan]

I have a suggestion. Take a poll of the American people; Ask them what they think about incest. I believe you'll find the answer for why it is illegal and just as important, socially disgusting. If you are really so concerned about the children, you would understand why these laws were written in the first place...........Infy

I am taking a poll and your input is part of the record. The questions I am asking is why do you think incest is disgusting? Is that from personal experience or because of cultural conditioning? How do you think a child of incest feels when you say that out lud in public? I know this is difficult subject and I expected personal redicule. All the same, I seek an honest answer.

[C1ay]

Isn't incest quite rare in the animal kingdom?

[infamous]

Originally Posted by MagnetMan

I am taking a poll and your input is part of the record. The questions I am asking is why do you think incest is disgusting? Is that from personal experience or because of cultural conditioning? How do you think a child of incest feels when you say that out lud in public? I know this is difficult subject and I expected personal redicule. All the same, I seek an honest answer.

It's one thing to discuss the moral and legal position of something like incest, and quite another to border on promoting it's social acceptance. These are interesting social subjects to discuss MagnetMan, but sorting out the bad from the good is one thing, promoting their acceptance is something else entirely....................Infy

[orbsycli]

If you think incest is cool....
well than you go do whatever you want to do,

but a lot of people don't think it is...
because it simply just feels..wrong.

I would never bone my sister,
or my mom
or my dad.

EVER, WTF
even if
"the ban is lifted"

but hey that's just my opinion,

[MagnetMan]

Originally Posted by infamous

It's one thing to discuss the moral and legal position of something like incest, and quite another to border on promoting it's social acceptance. These are interesting social subjects to discuss MagnetMan, but sorting out the bad from the good is one thing, promoting their acceptance is something else entirely....................Infy

I fully understand yours and others reluctance to discuss this subject so frankly. The responses are very similar to what has and continues to happen with homosexuality. But there is general agreement that being out in the open on any issue is better than remaining in the closet, much as it hurts to be probed. I may be wrong in thinking that revising the law may be better for the child in the long run. But first of all I dont know how it got in the books in the first place, or who put it there and why? If somebody can enlighten me on those basic facts, that will be helpful to start. But, as far as I know, this issue has not been on the table befiore now. So it is possible that we are perhaps making some history. All I want is the same result you want. What is best for our society. There is no point in standing in the middle on this issue, not if even just one child is been hurt by it.

[infamous]

Originally Posted by MagnetMan

I fully understand yours and others reluctance to discuss this subject so frankly.

Whos not being frank about this discussion, I think you need to choose your words a little more carefully.

Originally Posted by MagnetMan

The responses are very similar to what has and continues to happen with homosexuality. But there is general agreement that being out in the open on any issue is better than remaining in the closet,

Certainly, but promoting it's acceptance and being open about it are two entirely different things.

Originally Posted by MangetMan

But first of all I dont know how it got in the books in the first place, or who put it there and why? If somebody can enlighten me on those basic facts, that will be helpful to start.

I think you should be advised to supply this information yourself before ever starting such a discussion in the first place. It's not really a good way to start things off here, by asking us to supply information for you regarding a subject, you have yourself initiated. We'll be glad to offer any input we might have after the fact, for now try googling some of these historical facts and then maybe we can develope a more coherent study of the issue.

Originally Posted by MagnetMan

There is no point in standing in the middle on this issue, not if even just one child is been hurt by it.

You'll never find me standing in the middle on this one MagnetMan. Just one point here; If the law had been obeyed in the first place, the child would have no reason for distress, Right??!!

[Jay-qu]

Originally Posted by C1ay

Isn't incest quite rare in the animal kingdom?

Clay makes a good point! If you want to see how someone would react without cultural conditioning, then I suggest a look at the way nature intended things to be.
Babies born of incest parents can have serious defects because of the chromosones having the same allele at the some locos.. such offspring are much more likely to die before reaching sexual maturity and also have a much lower level of fitness then the norm.

We do have a means of naturallly avoiding incest behaviours - pheromones. Pheromones are very similar among siblings and family, it has been proved through experiments that people are attracted to pheromones that are most different from thier own.

[Pyrotex]

Originally Posted by Jay-qu

...Babies born of incest parents can have serious defects....

I don't like MagnetMan and I don't trust him.
I don't like incest and the emotional damage it can do to children.
I have a friend who was incested and her pain still lingers.

On the other hand, the myth that babies born of incest may have serious defects borders on just that...myth. Animal husbandry has "incested" cattle, horses, dogs, cats, and other critters for centuries in attempts to get rid of or enhance certain genetic traits. They do this because it works. Genetic defect probability is slightly higher but only slightly.

You have to inbreed the same line many, many generations before you get the hip defects of German Shepherds, for example.