Is Marijuana a dangerous drug?

[InfiniteNow]

Originally Posted by KickAssClown

Sorta, I am talking about studies done, once again. It has to do with chemical interactions and Psychosomatic states, or something like that.

Also if one is relaxed, rather than hyper tensioned behind the wheel, statistically they will be less prone to accidents. Not that I am advocating driving at all, I walk everywhere I need to go and talk public transit when absolutely nessessary to go farther than I can easily go. I'm just saying that the studies done point to MJ being a performance enhancer.

I think I understand the point you are trying to make, but the logic doesn't quite work out.

Yes, relaxation is better for reaction times. Being tense will limit your ability to activate the muscles and move quickly. Just think of Tai Chi. Relax the body and you have super quick strikes like Bruce Lee in fast forward.

However, the attentional deficits caused by a stoney high tend to far outweigh the improved speed resulting from relaxation. Attention is key when it comes to reaction times. Even listening to music in the background can slow reaction times, because your attention is being divided. When "stoned" (just try to remember why it's called that, and you'll better understand my point regarding attention), your attentional resources are not as available, hence any microseconds gained in muscle reaction due to relaxation are negated.

[KickAssClown]

Originally Posted by InfiniteNow

However, the attentional deficits caused by a stoney high tend to far outweigh the improved speed resulting from relaxation.

I am assuming this comes from personal experience and is being presented as emperical proof for the given premise, correct?

I am not claiming personally, I am making a claim of performance enhancement, based upon a number of studies. I don't drive. Period. I can do the math, I know the physics, cars are not safe creatures. By any means.

For now this may do for evidence for my premise: Safer Stoners

[InfiniteNow]

Do a simply reaction time (RT) study. Setup a computer with a program that shows a dot appearing a screen. Have the subject press the space bar when they see the dot. Measure the difference of elapsed time between dot appearance and space bar being pressed. These measurements will be accurate on the order of milliseconds (ms).

Have the same individual do it stoned 20 times and sober 20 times. Get 20-50 people to do the same. Compare the results.

Why would you think that someone stoned will perform better at this? The studies in your link say that people driving stoned "tend" to drive more slowly, which would be correlated with fewer accidents...

However, correlation does not prove causation.

[KickAssClown]

It's caution, and capacity to think properly. Did you know the average person driving one mile will brake 12 different laws?

Most people are not about rationality, they tend to be really aggressive when driving, it is this aggression that statistically accounts for the number of accidents on the road each year. Also when you are going faster you have a shorter reaction window, and the average human has a road disaster response time of about like 2 or three seconds.

I mean really I can see it whenever I get into a car with someone. Allot of people will be like "did you see that @$$hole? He just cut me off!" and some even like to play the game of: "Let's see how fast I can go; light and smoke a cigarette and talk on the cell phone at the same time." This is due to Tension, Apprehension, Impatience, Competitiveness, and Adrenalin.

Car driving is a highly stressful thing, and as you said perception is key. my experience with becoming stoned is I find that my perceptual awareness of myself and everything else becomes a lot keener. It assists in Visual-Spacial acuity. "A stitch in time saves nine." "A pound of prevention is worth an ounce of cure." If I perceive a danger to myself or others, and take measures to prevent said danger, then it is eminently more useful than, "oh shit I am about to get into a accident, better hit the break pedal..."

I do understand the whole reaction time, but I haven't had time slowing down around me in quite a while, not since I started dosing a long time ago.

[edited for grammar error correction.]

[Michaelangelica]

Marijuana and Driving Film
My web link is not fast enough for this
D'Alliance

[KickAssClown]

It is interesting to note in hind sight that what is attributed to deficit of attention maybe something related to ADD or ADHD, which has come up in my recent research into an affect known as "Flow" or "hyperfocus".

It brings into question the notion that weed allows a person to be more distracted, or to have an inability to focus.

Now if we want to talk about music, why not cellphones? Perhaps drinking (both alcoholic, and non-alcoholic beverages), and eating? Talking? Smoking (tabacco and otherwise)?

These things all serve to distract a person, to divide their attention while driving. I wonder, what do you suppose is the most dangerous out of these things?

[wine]

Oh silly-
Don't worry about people smoking marijuana and driving.
From my observations, human beings under the influence of marijuana are generally paranoid, and very accute to their surroundings.
While driving, most psychonauts are glued to the road. They drive the speed limit for fear of police!
Of course, taking a look at the yin yang in my mind of course there are people who will drive crazy high, just 'cause they can
and those people drive crazy, anyway.
There's nothing to worry about,
it's not like alcohol where it impairs your motor skills.

The first documentation of marijuana EVER tells us that people thousands of years ago would burn it in an Urn and it was Dubbed the name "Loud" as people in the room would get loud.

The real danger here is distractions,
which are everywhere
all of the time.

'Cept up here in Napa. ;]

[InfiniteNow]

Let's everyone take a brief moment to remind ourselves of Hypography's rules on drug related discussions. Not sure how to view the rules? PM me.

[CraigD]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

Marijuana and Driving Film
My web link is not fast enough for this
D'Alliance

Originally Posted by wine

Don't worry about people smoking marijuana and driving.
From my observations, human beings under the influence of marijuana are generally paranoid, and very accute to their surroundings.

The linked-to UK video appears to come to the same conclusion, though they’re much more careful to note that their short test was “in no way scientific”. IMHO, the test was not innately unscientific, but entirely empirical, making no theoretical prediction, and too small to be statistically significant. Like similar print articles (to the best of my knowledge, the maker of the video’s claim that such a test has never been published as video in the UK is true), the video appears to be an appeal for legitimate, government sanctioned study of the effects of Marijuana on human performance, especially driving.

I think this is a well-founded appeal. I fear, however, that Marijuana and other US Schedule I substances are too politically volatile for such studies to be sanctioned in any country with drug laws similar to the US, a political climate has existed for at least half a century. Without such sanctions, legitimate scientific study can’t be done, as legitimate scientists and scientific institutions will not, by definition of the term “legitimate”, violate laws. Compounding this bad situation are various “government studies” which are not well controlled, peer reviewed, often not performed by qualified scientists, or even involving actual experimentation.

Though these political obstacles are clearly an impediment to science, their social impact is, I think worse. In the US, a generation of drug laws unsupported by a large community of scientists has resulted in a significant fraction of our society mistrusting our government in general, and government-provided information about the drug-related risks in particular, impairing both the governments’ and non-government health care organizations’ ability to effectively warn people of about these risks.

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by CraigD

the video appears to be an appeal for legitimate, government sanctioned study of the effects of Marijuana on human performance, especially driving.

I think this is a well-founded appeal.
Compounding this bad situation are various “government studies” which are not well controlled, peer reviewed, often not performed by qualified scientists, or even involving actual experimentation.

Though these political obstacles are clearly an impediment to science, their social impact is, I think worse.
In the US, a generation of drug laws unsupported by a large community of scientists has resulted in a significant fraction of our society mistrusting our government in general, and government-provided information about the drug-related risks in particular, impairing both the governments’ and non-government health care organizations’ ability to effectively warn people of about these risks.

It is tragic that many herbs are not made available to scientists for research. Recently Salvia divinorum was banned here and a student had to abandon his Phd examining the herb and its effects on depression.
The drug Ecstasy may help Parkinson's disease.
Banning legitimate research is a Government Crime against science,research and knowledge;fueled by ignorance and fear-herbal Witch Trials
I am told that the USA intends to ban Catnip (Nepeta cateria -a mint) next; but I think that MUST be a hoax?

Re your other point about trust:-
The NSW Health Department realised early in the anti-drug war that they had to be honest otherwise kids would distrust everything they said. Consequently Marijuana was much lower on the list of dangerous drugs that many wowsers in the Government wanted. Cigarettes and alcohol came first and second.

Now The NSW Health Department see the transmission of aids and hepatitis as major problems so they have a needle exchange programme and have set up a trial supervised "shooting gallery" despite much oppostion.
(Two billion people have hepatitis B !)