Capital Punishment: Is it right?

[TheBigDog]

Originally Posted by Boerseun

A democratically elected government is an extention of the people's will. If a democratically elected government willingly kills people by virtue of a law enabling Capital Punishment, then the people who have voted this government into power are all party to murder.

You can't justify this by saying "Yes, but he was a murder." What's his history got to do with it? Let's say that I kill my neighbour, because my neighbour killed someone years ago. His history has nothing to do with the fact that I've now committed a murder, too.

Murder is the deliberatly, willfully and unlawfully taking of a human life. Unless you wish to change the definition of the word, or the lawful power of government, then you cannot say that capital punishment is murder. It is not. Otherwise I can start calling astrology science.

Originally Posted by Prolu2007

Evil people aka Saddam Hussein, they should be sent to another Institution for there specifically horrendous crimes, they should be severly punished daily until there life ends due to their self. Killing shortens punishment. Why not punish for the rest of his life than punish for few minutes.

Are you advocating torture, or restricting access to the Internet? What exactly is severe daily punishment until they end life by their self? (suicide?) How is that more humane than the death penalty?

Bill

[LJP07]

Originally Posted by TheBigDog

Murder is the deliberatly, willfully and unlawfully taking of a human life. Unless you wish to change the definition of the word, or the lawful power of government, then you cannot say that capital punishment is murder. It is not. Otherwise I can start calling astrology science.

Are you advocating torture, or restricting access to the Internet? What exactly is severe daily punishment until they end life by their self? (suicide?) How is that more humane than the death penalty?

Bill

Rephrased: They should be punished from life, not kept in a jail but in a more serious confinement for punishment. I don't mean to suggest suicide if that's how it looks.

If it's not murder, then it's Voluntary Manslaughter, even if it's not that, it's still taking a life which underlyes all killings. And taking a life deliberatly is what murderers do. They both might not be equal but both sides, Murderers and Government, are equal in terms of willingness to take life.

What justifies taking a life?

[Cedars]

I have only one problem with the dp and that is the possiblity of taking an innocent persons life, that being an innocent person convicted of a crime they did not commit. Other than that I havent a quarrel with putting a murderer out of our misery. I wish SCotUS had not decided rape isnt enough of a crime to warrent the dp, for this ruling includes child rapists.

Personally I think the dp should be an option for lifers. If someone is convicted of a crime that warrents life without parole but the judical system does not allow for the dp to be mandated for the crime, I think the convict should have the option of chosing to undergo the dp themselves rather than the punishment of life in prison. I think it is a cruelty that we decide such a punishment without an option to forego life, yet we can all agree that some persons should not be allowed free to act on their impulse ever. Child molesters comes to mind. While you can say suicide is an option for them, some people cannot bring themselves to fufil that desire no matter how much they hate their own life. And then too, the state/feds have an obligation to prevent such actions as much as possible.

As far as justifing it? Well we shoot mad dogs dont we? We havent a cure for the impulses some criminals have. John Wayne Gacy made pretty cool clown pictures when in prison, yet the beauty of his clowns was intertwined with the heinious person he tried to hide. It (his art) isnt enough of a value to society to warrent allowing him to continue with life. The loss to society of the 20+ people he killed (and the survivors of those murdered persons) hold more value for me than the scumbag who (acting out sexual deviances) denied society of their potential value and scarred the remaining surviving family in ways that we can never know how it negativly impacted their lives and output to society.

There are always people who try to save wounded animals, abused animals, etc and we read about their success/failures in the news everyday. I hold people (as in murderous criminals, molesters, etc) to a higher standard than I do pit bulls and tigers. If they (violent criminals) havent the internal restraints so that the dp does not deter their actions, well then why would I want to risk them someday being free to inflict their impulses on another, or support, via my tax dollars, their continued existance in prison. I do not see how this is a wise investment on my behalf by the state/country that I reside in.

[TheBigDog]

Originally Posted by Prolu2007

Rephrased: They should be punished from life, not kept in a jail but in a more serious confinement for punishment. I don't mean to suggest suicide if that's how it looks.

If it's not murder, then it's Voluntary Manslaughter, even if it's not that, it's still taking a life which underlyes all killings. And taking a life deliberatly is what murderers do. They both might not be equal but both sides, Murderers and Government, are equal in terms of willingness to take life.

What justifies taking a life?

What the laws of society deam appropriate. It varies from place to place. In the US there are Federal and State laws that will bring the death penalty. Some countries have the death penalty. Others do not. It is a matter of choice. Changing the meaning of words to criminalize those with a different belief system as you is usually frowned upon.

You still do not get that there is a difference between criminal murder, and Capital Punishment. Does the murder victim have the benefit of a justice system that presumes him innocent? Does the murder victim have a defense and an opportunity to be found innocent, or plea to a lesser punishment? The legal system makes it very difficult to execute a person. Those who are executed have gone through the most thorough examination of evidence that can be done. Both by the professionals that they may hire, and my teams of activist volunteers.

You need to read the definition of the word Manslaughter. Again, UNLAWFUL is the key word in the definition.

Bill

[Spiked Blood]

How can capital punishment in any way be right?

It fixes nothing. There is no proof that it deters crime in any way. It is simply refusing to deal with a problem in a rather prosaic caveman manner. Have we not outgrown this style of problem solving?

Was it Stalin that said, "Death solves all problems - No man, no problem"?

[TheBigDog]

Originally Posted by Spiked Blood

How can capital punishment in any way be right?

It fixes nothing. There is no proof that it deters crime in any way. It is simply refusing to deal with a problem in a rather prosaic caveman manner. Have we not outgrown this style of problem solving?

Was it Stalin that said, "Death solves all problems - No man, no problem"?

My God! Why are we still using the wheel to roll things? I mean, cavemen used the wheel! Haven't we advanced past cavemen yet? And didn't Hitler use the wheel? Do we want to use what Hitler used?

Bill

[C1ay]

Capital punishment has outlived it's usefullness....

[LJP07]

Originally Posted by TheBigDog

You still do not get that there is a difference between criminal murder, and Capital Punishment. Does the murder victim have the benefit of a justice system that presumes him innocent? Does the murder victim have a defense and an opportunity to be found innocent, or plea to a lesser punishment? The legal system makes it very difficult to execute a person. Those who are executed have gone through the most thorough examination of evidence that can be done. Both by the professionals that they may hire, and my teams of activist volunteers.

You need to read the definition of the word Manslaughter. Again, UNLAWFUL is the key word in the definition.

Bill

I fully understand the difference between Criminal Murder and Capital Punishment, Criminal Murder is unlawful intentional murder, Capital Punishment is the Lawful Intentional Murder, both are killings, both are wrong. I suggest you read the Point 7: Deterrance Argument on my Amnesty Link in my initial post, it hasn't proved anything with extensive research.

However, those who commit and prove to be " evil ", I still don't think it's MORAL to do such a thing. I'm not interested how they make it difficult to execute someone, it's a sickning act. The fact that theres even a risk that an innocent person is killed isn't right, how can you explain that Big Dog? Is that risk good enough for every person killed? By the way, it has happened and will happen again?

[Spiked Blood]

Originally Posted by TheBigDog

My God! Why are we still using the wheel to roll things? I mean, cavemen used the wheel! Haven't we advanced past cavemen yet? And didn't Hitler use the wheel? Do we want to use what Hitler used?

Bill

I see Mrs 'Bill' is still not giving it up at home.

Your method of dealing with an alternative opinion is also outdated. Grow up.

[LJP07]

On this link half way down the page, it describes the methods used worldwide in using the Death Sentence:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/execut3.htm

A piece of an article reads as follows Big Dog, especially read point 4:

Recent trends in the U.S.:

The country has experienced a rapid swing in opinion against the death penalty in recent years.

Some reasons are:
1.The continued opposition to the death penalty by the Roman Catholic
Church, some mainline faith groups and all or essentially all liberal faith groups.

2.A sharp decrease in total crime rates in the past decade.

3.Increasing recognition that race plays a major role in murder convictions.

4.DNA testing has proven that over 100 inmates awaiting execution on death row were innocent.

5.Research has cast doubt on whether capital punishment acts as a deterrent to murder.

6.A growing belief that many convicts have been executed for crimes they did not commit.