The Purpose of Manners

[paigetheoracle]

Manners are being nice when you don't have to be (life is voluntary - death[nastiness]is an obligatory fact of death). Meaness of spirit implies both greed and violence (fear based reaction) for this reason. This is also why gentleness is strength because it shows trust in the universe and the way things unfold as violence shows none (impatience).

[InfiniteNow]

They are like laws in that they codify or set a standard for human behavior, but they are unlike laws in that there is no formal system for punishing transgressions. They are a kind of norm. What is considered "mannerly" is highly susceptible to change with time, geographical location, social stratum, occasion, and other factors.

Did you have a question in here somewhere though?

[nutronjon]

Wow I see this is an old thread, and what to acknowledge the effort to discuss manners.

As I am learning from the discussion in the thread "importance of good manners" and from googling- the purpose of good manners is social harmony. I love good manners, because they do prevent so many social problems.

We have very limited brains. A person is doing good to remember the names of 600 hundred people, and perhaps a fact or two about each one. When we lived in tribes we didn't need laws, because we could enteract with each other on personal level. In large cities we are living with strangers. We can not possibly deal with everyone we meet, in a day, on a personal level, and this is when manners become very important. When we know what to socially expect and is expected of us, we have a high degree of social security. In contrast is being a White women walking in state that is far from home, in a Black nieghborhood where hostility towards Whites is likely. That is quite frightening because the district and the expectations are unknown.

As I walk my dog down the bike path, I smile and say hello to just about everyone, and most the people I pass do the same. Sometimes, when passing a new person, I see fear in the new person. In time, repeatedly smiling and saying hello, causes the fear to decrease. I think it is easier to live together when we don't fear each other. What do you think?

Politically good manners are very important. It means, I can tell my representative that I would like to discuss something, and my respresentative finds time to have lunch with me and discuss my concern. Of course this doesn't happen with most the people who represent me in government. They don't have the time. Well, if they don't have the time to discuss my concerns, they can't represent me, can they? We have thrown good manners out the window, and the result is citizens feeling disenfranchized and subject to government, rather feeling they are their government. This destroys democracy.

[InfiniteNow]

Originally Posted by nutronjon

As I am learning from the discussion in the thread "importance of good manners" and from googling- the purpose of good manners is social harmony. I love good manners, because they do prevent so many social problems.

Yet it could simultaneously be argued that they actually cause much of the the social problems we expience. Perhaps not the manners themselves, but the fundamental codes on which they are based.

If one is not careful enough, or one slips up and is seen not to be following the local code/custom of manners, then they could equally have generated, unintentionally, a social problem and social disharmony...

Further, these codes are open to interpretation, subjective in nature, yet enforced as if they were objective.

Just some food for thought.

[nutronjon]

Originally Posted by InfiniteNow

Yet it could simultaneously be argued that they actually cause much of the the social problems we expience. Perhaps not the manners themselves, but the fundamental codes on which they are based.

If one is not careful enough, or one slips up and is seen not to be following the local code/custom of manners, then they could equally have generated, unintentionally, a social problem and social disharmony...

Further, these codes are open to interpretation, subjective in nature, yet enforced as if they were objective.

Just some food for thought.

Through all the discussion of manners, I am thinking, when in Roman do as the Romans do. The point is, not to be blinded by our ideas of good manners, but aware that people do have such codes. I love you as you make me think of an old children's text about good manners. When in someone else's home we must respect the ways and customs of that family. When someone is visiting, we must take care to make this person feel comfortable and welcome, and this means doing things that are pleasing to the guest. Do you see? At all times the focus is on the other person, not ourselves.

This is why I have a terrible problem with Israel. The Jews were as guest in Palenstine territory and they got along very well with the Palenstinians until the Zionist movement which threatened to do exactly what was done, dispossess the Palestinians of their land. Forget the politics, this is just blantantly bad manners, and the cost of such bad manners has been very high.

You bring to my awareness a huge contrast between my generation and the younger ones. During a period when my life was going very badly, I saw a mental health counselor, and he attempted to "fix me" by changing my values to putting myself first. I firmly told him, my sense of values are what make me strong, please, do not attempt to change them. That is virtues are equalivant to strength. This means I put others first and I am flexible, willing to accept their differences when in their presince. Soooo much arguing on the Internet is this technological notion that there is right or wrong, and I am first and foremost. I sense that I am not explaining this well.

Native American didn't have a snese of individual egos as beings separate from the tribe. A White man guest entered a ceremony and asked if he was doing the right thing. A question the native did not quite comprehend. He responded with "what is everyone else doing"? We assume our egos and separation from each other is natural and the only possible choice. Then argue about differences in good manners. This is nuts. I think bletching at the table is really discusting, but if I were in a country where bletching is considered a compliment to the cook, I would do my best to bletch. Make sense?