Asperger's Syndrome

[paigetheoracle]

The only definite symptom I have that is out of the ordinary is laughing when being hurt or poor response to pain. My wife used Thai Bongers (rubber balls on springy metal rods, with wooden handles) on my back for muscle tension relief and couldn't believe (because I was laughing) that it was hurting: The day after, when she saw the bruises, she changed her mind.

[paigetheoracle]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

1 migraines
are fascinating. A lot of highly intelligent, creative people have them. I have "painless migraines" took 50 years to diagnose that.
Sacks has written a book about it. He too has migraine problems.

To answer the question "?" who knows??

Please see also my discussion on feverfew 9somewhere here) a herb that contains some "aspirin" type compounds which suggests a link between gut and brain

2.I think you would expect some Asperger's type personalities her on hypography.
Is that the case with all science?

3 Asperger's seems more prevalent in males (?) Why?
Evolutionarily what are the ++'s ?
An ability to focus on the kill??

Thinkers and migraine - could it be that they put the brakes on their impulse to act, in order to observe what is truly going on, rather than get lost in auto-response? (Monkey see, monkey do). Same with creativity - you need to block out, external distractions and this could lead to the bodily disruptions from hormonal/ chemical imbalance, that kicks off the attacks: Rude good health or creativity/ intelligence, that's the choice as I see it.

[HydrogenBond]

The main problem is connected to statistical studies. This is irrational math and it not connected to the highest level software. It is connected more to the middle level, where emotional or subjective filters bias data. I have used this example before but will use it again.

Say we had three people watching children play at the playground. The first is grouchy. He may see the child play as annoying and stressful. The second person is in a good mood and may see the child play as fun and relaxing. The third person is nervous and paranoid and may see the child's play as an accident waiting to happen. They all see the same data but the emotional or subjective filter of each, limit the data perception. All three could run statistical studies to correlate their perception. The first can show how erratic noise can cause stress. The second can show how watching child play can be soothing. The last can show how playground accidents happen with reliable frequency. Because statistics is irrational math it can be used to help support irrational states of mind. That is why today this is bad for you, tomorrow it is good for you. Irrational science math caters to the middle level software, where it helps creates a mood such as fear. If you expect rational reasons, one is at a lost with most statistical studies. It is sort of like talking to an irrational person" this is how it is!".

Statistics amounts to the mathematical equivalent of the crystal ball. The readers of the crystal ball give us their irrational interpretation, and we are suppose to pay homage, even if they can't reason the result. That is pre-age of enlightenment stuff, which a rational person should ignore since the power of suggestion is can be strong when dealing with crystal ball readers. They can create self for filling prophesies, i.e, placebo affect.

[InfiniteNow]

Wow... so it's actually statistics which causes Asperger's? Fascinating...

[paigetheoracle]

Originally Posted by InfiniteNow

Wow... so it's actually statistics which causes Asperger's? Fascinating...

Yup, I'm definitely a statistic! Nope, nothing human about me - not even my national insurance number, telephone number, dog tag number....

[CraigD]

Originally Posted by HydrogenBond

The main problem is connected to statistical studies. This is irrational math and it not connected to the highest level software. It is connected more to the middle level, where emotional or subjective filters bias data. …

Although I hope I’ve merely misunderstood this post, HydrogenBond appears to be suggesting that disorders in the Autistic spectrum, which include Autism and Asperger’s syndrome, are not physically real disorders, but subjective social interpretations of the normal range of children’s behavior.

Virtually all scientific data, both statistical studies and neuroanotomical analysis, envivo and necroscopic, refute this belief. This literature is large, and has been well know by scientists and educators since the early 1990s. Autistic Children Have More Gray Matter in Brains is a recent example of such literature in the popular press.

While I understand that HydrogenBond believes that Statistics are “irrational math”, and their conclusions therefore suspect, I believe that this particular application of his belief is potentially harmful, as it lends credence to the belief of many pseudoscientific groups with histories of playing on the misfortune and emotional vulnerability of families striving to cope with caring for children suffering from autistic disorders. Nearly all scientific evidence supports the conclusion that autistic disorders are have objectively real, neuroanatomical causes, and should be considered no more subjective than diabetes or congenital heart defects.

No clinician or educator with whom I’ve spoken disputes that some, possibly substantial numbers, of misdiagnoses occur, exacerbated in many jurisdictions by education and healthcare funding laws and policies that provide better service to children diagnoses as autistic than simply as mentally retarded or developmentally delayed. However, to suggest that “the main problem” related to these disorders is the inappropriate use of mathematics is, I strongly believe, very wrong, on many levels, and appeal to all scientifically minded people not to do so.

[paigetheoracle]

I personally believe Aspies don't wallow in self-pity and it is this that makes us appear unfeeling (negative emotion to us is I believe unusual and limited to overwhelming sensations that we can't cope with i.e. anxiety but depression? No - or at least not in the depth/ way ordinary people think of it).

[Michaelangelica]

Well said Craig
I think what happens in the sciences is that we get better definitions as we tease out a big label like "schizophrenia". a global term becomes more specific.
i guess people get worried by all these new terms apearing like "cot death" or 'peanut allergy. In the pst these would have been "unexplained sudden deaths".
Autism was called "Childhood Schizophrenia" in the 60's. Asperger's was unknown, along with learning difficulties like dyslexia. The Behavioural Sciences have made a lot of advances in the past 50 years. Probably more than at any other time in history, and we still have a lot more unravelling to go.

Statistics, if used correctly, can be a useful tool in a well designed experiment.
One hopes that "peer review" finds those cases of poor research design or poor use of statistical models.
In my view research design and good stats. use is most prevalent in the Behavioural Sciences as 'they' are very aware of the pitfalls inherent in just wearing a white coat for example!

[Essay]

just an fyi....

World Music Central - UN World Autism Awareness Day: Baroness Uddin welcomes Autism Song

A presentation was made in the House of Lords in the Palace of Westminster in London recently. The distinguished Sri Lanka born singer/songwriter Nimal Mendis presented a copy of 'Open Every Door' sung by Gresha Schuilling to Lady Uddin who has campaigned on autism and Asperger's Syndrome for many years.

Nimal Mendis wrote the autism song for the Autism Awareness Campaign UK. The song is about a 12 year old boy with autism. It is the cry of every parent or carerer who has a child with autism.

'Open Every Door' was launched for the first ever United Nations World Autism Awareness Day declared by the the United Nations General Assembly on the recommendation of Qatar.

Links to documents
The UN, in document A/C.3/62/L.22 has said it is:

Deeply concerned by the prevalence and high rate of autism in children in all
regions of the world and the consequent developmental challenges to long-term
health care, education, training, and intervention programmes undertaken by
Governments, non-governmental organizations and the private sector, as well as its
tremendous impact on children, their families, communities and societies,
Recalling that early diagnosis and appropriate research and interventions are
vital to the growth and development of the individual,
1. Decides to designate 2 April as World Autism Awareness Day, to be
observed every year beginning in 2008;
2. Invites all Member States, relevant organizations of the United Nations
system and other international organizations, as well as civil society, including
non-governmental organizations and the private sector, to observe World Autism
Awareness Day in an appropriate manner, in order to raise public awareness of
autism;
3. Encourages Member States to take measures to raise awareness
throughout the society, including at the family level, regarding children with autism;
4. Requests the Secretary-General to bring the present resolution to the
attention of all Member States and United Nations organizations.


Getting help for a child with autism - CNN.com
In recognition of World Autism Awareness Day April 2, CNN reports on the global impact, latest science and controversies related to the brain disorder. Watch for expanded coverage on CNN.com and CNN TV.


The UN World Autism Day takes place on Wednesday 2nd April 2008.

[TheBigDog]

I do not blame poor use of statistics for conditions of the human anatomy, but I do think that HB is onto a truth about a tendency to leap to conclusions about the nature of a child's condition. This tendency to leap then plays havoc on the statistics.

The diagnosis of Asperger's and other forms of mild autism is not a science. A child may display some of a range of characteristics and qualify for a particular label. My third son has been alternately diagnosed with Asperger's and Autism. It depends upon the person doing the evaluation, and Bryan's mood the day he is being observed. Does he like the person doing the evaluation? Was he stressed in the morning? Is he feeling silly, or is he taking the tests seriously? If Bryan is classified as Asperger's then the statistics for that jump up in our township. If he is classified as Autistic then the statistics for that jump up. If he were diagnosed as OCD with delayed social skills that gets bumped up. All could be valid diagnoses. All depends upon the subjective observations of the clinician and mood of an eleven year old being observed.

As for history, Asperger's was defined in the 40's. It was not recognized by the big book of official human conditions until 1994, but it was not unknown. Many people could probably be diagnosed as having Asperger's syndrome who have led successful lives. They probably manifest themselves as nerds and geeks because of the tendency toward deep dives into specific fields of interest (train people come to mind). Poor social skills is also typical of Asperger's, and who of us did not know kids with poor social skill, bordering on missing. Before there was a diagnosis there was more of an emphasis on mainstreaming a kids behavior, getting them to fit in. Now that fitting in is an archaic concept we tend to coddle kids rather than challenge them. Lowering expectations as a result of a diagnosis which mandates extra sensitivity further pushes kids into the characteristic behaviors that become diagnoses of these afflictions. It is sometimes tough, but people can rise to a challenge, even the "afflicted".

My son Bryan can smell sympathy in the water. He plays on it to get to do what he wants when he wants. Every few months I sit in meetings with teachers and challenge them to challenge him. Get him to deal with broken patterns. Get him to respond like any other kid is expected to respond. One must walk a line with it because he will have a meltdown once in a while that is atypical, and you cannot let him interfere with the class' progress. But if you don't he will just do as he pleases and demand more exemptions of behavior all the time - he is strange but not stupid. The hardest thing to get the teachers to do is poke him. He needs to be touched or poked to get him to look at you and acknowledge you. Teachers have a hands off policy, but you need to poke the kid to keep him focuses sometimes. It doesn't hurt him, it just snaps him into paying attention to you.

As he gets older he is growing out of many of the very immature social habits. Especially as he realizes that his behavior is a social barrier, and his toys are not the gratifying playmates he seeks anymore.

Having been around the conditions being discussed I have seen first hand people who use it as an excuse. Many of the kids I see simply need a different type of interaction and they are happy normal kids. But parents want a professional to handle things and look for the opportunity to expunge themselves of responsibility. They have a weird kid (often a normal kid) but they are looking for an explanation for the weirdness, so they take the kid to doctor after doctor until they get satisfaction. Then they can say "I always knew there was something wrong" rather than saying to themselves, "maybe I should spend more time appreciating character while helping the kid adopt habits that will keep him from getting his ass kicked on the playground".

Are these real conditions? Yes. Are they always properly diagnosed? No. Are the diagnoses sometimes driven by parents, teachers, and doctors who would like to apply a label that comes with funding? Yes. Does this skew the statistics? Yes. Do the skewed statistics justify reevaluation of the model of diagnosis and make us think that we have a growing epidemic? Yes. It is a vicious circle and I cannot think of an answer for it. In the mean time I think each kid is an individual, and in the high functioning zone of autism the characteristics that kids can exhibit are probably unique to each individual. Broad labels make for simple funding calls, but they also bundle a greater population than is most likely necessary.

Bill