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Beginning with a stationary observer on the surface of the earth, the rate at which clocks operate changes with altitude and with speed relative to the observer. The question is: What is the cause for this clock dilation? The clock's operation is a physical occurrence. Does empirical evidence indicate the reason for clock dilation?
James
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Re: Clock Dilation: Its cause?
There is plenty of evidence of time dilatation. For example in accelerators you can "see" particles which have a half-life of a few microseconds in their proper time, but when they are moving quick enough it seems to us that they live much much longer.
The cause is I would say the fact that in special relativity there is the axiom that there is a maximum velocity (c) and that all massive particles can never move at that velocity.
Like any other theory special relativity is based on axioms. In case of special relativity the first is the one above and the second that there is no preferred system of reference.
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Re: Clock Dilation: Its cause?
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Originally Posted by sanctus
There is plenty of evidence of time dilatation. For example in accelerators you can "see" particles which have a half-life of a few microseconds in their proper time, but when they are moving quick enough it seems to us that they live much much longer.
The cause is I would say the fact that in special relativity there is the axiom that there is a maximum velocity (c) and that all massive particles can never move at that velocity.
Like any other theory special relativity is based on axioms. In case of special relativity the first is the one above and the second that there is no preferred system of reference.
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Hi Sanctus,
The particle half-life is an example that is analogous to the clock problem. The point of this question is to hear from others how time becomes a part of physical action in the universe. Time is not something for which mechanical type tests can be performed. It is not available to be contained, handled, or tested. It seems to me that the adoption of the idea that time is the property that is being altered is an unsubstantiated assumption. There is a theory, but it is not based upon empirical evidence resulting from tests that were performed on 'time'. Anyway, thank you for responding in a cordial manner.
James |
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Re: Clock Dilation: Its cause?
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Originally Posted by James Putnam
The point of this question is to hear from others how time becomes a part of physical action in the universe.
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Indeed, this is an age old question in philosophy.
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Time is not something for which mechanical type tests can be performed. It is not available to be contained, handled, or tested. It seems to me that the adoption of the idea that time is the property that is being altered is an unsubstantiated assumption.
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Just to clarify, time dilation does not imply that "time is the property being altered", but rather the *measurements* of time are being altered. Hence clocks are used.
Science does not have a definition of time in the way that you are assuming. Science utilizes the second to measure time. The "essence of time" is a question for philosophy to answer. |
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Re: Clock Dilation: Its cause?
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Originally Posted by freeztar
Indeed, this is an age old question in philosophy.
Just to clarify, time dilation does not imply that "time is the property being altered", but rather the *measurements* of time are being altered. Hence clocks are used.
Science does not have a definition of time in the way that you are assuming. Science utilizes the second to measure time. The "essence of time" is a question for philosophy to answer. |
Yes it is only our measurement of time. Our measurement of time is not time. Let me pose the question from a different perspective. There is a clock that keeps a very accurate measurement of time for us based upon some cyclic action. For simplicity, each cycle is named 'one second of measured time'. The point is that the name second is only a name. As you have implied, so far as we can tell we are not affecting the property of time. We are simply working with physical action and its rate of operation. Each cycle of the clock could have been named one 'cycle'. If we compared another frequency of operation to that of the clock, then we would have units of cycle(a)/cycle(b).
James |
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Re: Clock Dilation: Its cause?
Yes, the second is just an arbitrary measure of time that is useful. As it is formally defined, it is merely relative to every other cycle. It's simply a very useful way to measure events and compare them.
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Re: Clock Dilation: Its cause?
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Originally Posted by freeztar
Yes, the second is just an arbitrary measure of time that is useful. As it is formally defined, it is merely relative to every other cycle. It's simply a very useful way to measure events and compare them.
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Which is exactly what is being done to confirm the effect of time dilation. |
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Re: Clock Dilation: Its cause?
The Clock Dialation is purley Dimensional .. it is Movement that's impeded.
We can only really Deduce the upper limits of dialation through data collected in experiment.
Empirically Light travels at the greatest velocity from the sun to earth and holds the slowest clock dialation ... The sun would have its own gravity clock dialation zone and earth would Have its own 3d gravity dialation Zone ... Purely Dimensional . Becuase the light travels out of the suns 3d Dialation Zone to Earths 3d dialation zone , We percieve an interval ..
If we occupied the same dimension of C then we would see the Traversing light instantaneously on earth. It would be quicker so all things want to travel this way but cant!
Empirical observations from black holes bring forth the notion that light cannot escape the blackhole horizon ... and from this brings a theoretical point where the highest gravity potential dialation is the same for the velocity dialation.
The Atomic clock on the air craft ran slightly slower than the one on earth ... is probably the famous observation ...
If there is no time then there is no change or movement ,so im led to believe,
just the potential to do so.
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Re: Clock Dilation: Its cause?
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Originally Posted by REASON
Which is exactly what is being done to confirm the effect of time dilation.
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And, of course, since I see the use of the name 'time' (What do you mean by it?) as being very possibly misleading, I would say the effect of clock dilation.
James |
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Re: Clock Dilation: Its cause?
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Putnam
And, of course, since I see the use of the name 'time' (What do you mean by it?) as being very possibly misleading, I would say the effect of clock dilation.
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It's quite obvious now that it is the abstraction of time which troubles you, James. Am I correct?
In any case, I highly recommend this thread to all who are unfamiliar with it.
TIME EXPLAINED (v2.1) |
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