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Published by Doctordick 04-21-2008
I have spent a considerable amount of time in composing this post because, in close to fifty years, I have been totally unable to communicate the rationality of my position to any professional physicists. They invariably turn a blind eye to my arguments. I am trying here to put the issue down in as clear a manner as I can. I hope my efforts yield some success.

I personally find it quite difficult to comprehend why the physics community puts such absolute faith in the validity of Einstein's theory of relativity. If you go into the derivation of that theory, you will find that it is fundamentally based upon the null result of the Michelson-Morley experiments. This null result was first explained by the Lorentz-FitzGerald contraction hypothesis: the hypothesis that physical structures contracted in the direction of motion according to the equation L'= L \sqrt{1-\left(\frac{v}{c}\right)^2}. Einstein came up with the idea of simply postulating the null result of the Michelson-Morley experiment and deducing the Lorentz-FitzGerald contraction as a consequence of that postulate. But that was not the central issue of his theory. The central issue of his theory was that he replaced the “aether” with a “space-time continuum”.

Quoting Wikipedia, “Physics theories of the late 19th century postulated that, just as water waves must have a medium to move across (water), and audible sound waves require a medium to move through (air or water), so also light waves require a medium, the 'luminiferous aether' or the 'ethereal aether'. Because light can travel through a vacuum, it was assumed that the vacuum must contain the medium of light.” Einstein instead hypothesized that they were “??waves??” (which he called distortions in geometric curvature) in the very “fabric” of his space-time continuum. I personally see little difference between his theory and the ethereal aether theory other than the geometry involved and Einstein's removal of the concept “time” as an interaction parameter. By that very removal (making it a dimension of his space-time continuum) he created a rather static description of reality. Calling one of his coordinates “time”, does little to remove the rock hard nature of his description of the universe as absolute fixed paths in a four dimensional space; no matter what geometry he uses.

What I want everyone here to comprehend is that, as soon as you accept Lorentz-FitzGerald contraction as experimentally correct, the clock settings (the standard relativistic clock adjustments) follow exactly as they do in Einstein's theory so it is only the mental image of reality we are discussing here. Most physicists seem to lose sight of that fact. Now there is one important fact which should be kept in mind: the Lorentz-FitzGerald contraction was originally based upon Maxwell's equation; that is, the contraction is a clearly deduced consequence of electromagnetic phenomena (electromagnetic interactions) and not necessarily binding on other type interactions. On the other hand, from the perspective of Einstein's geometric explanation (his space-time continuum) all interactions should obey the same rules.

With that in mind, let us go back to some earlier comments I have made. I made a very important observation in post #42 of the thread “What can we know of reality”. In that post, I showed exactly how the four fundamental constraints I had developed from logical considerations could be expressed in a single equation (what I have come to call my fundamental equation). All I did was demonstrate that the four constraints would be obeyed by any solution to that equation and likewise, that any solution to the fundamental constraints would obey that equation (in the form zero plus zero equals zero). The most important observation occurs in the very end of that post and has to do with the fact that

\sum_q \frac{\partial}{\partial x_q}\vec{\psi} = 0

is valid in only one specific frame of reference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctordick View Post
This means that the fundamental equation is only valid in in one specific Euclidean coordinate system: that would be the coordinate system where \sum_i \frac{\partial}{\partial x_i}\vec{\psi} = 0.. This can be seen as quite analogous to Newton's “inertial” coordinate system in that his equations simplify to F=ma in that coordinate system. Likewise, my fundamental equation is much simpler in the particular coordinate system where \sum_i \frac{\partial}{\partial x_i}\vec{\psi} = 0.. Thus this is a constraint on the coordinate system to be used, not actually a problem with achieving the represented deduced constraints.
The problem is that my equation is not valid unless the entire universe is included (i.e., absolutely all relevant information is expressed in terms of those numerical labels we have indexed) and that makes the issue non trivial.

This brings up a very interesting conundrum regarding relativity. Newton's “inertial” system was quite easy to identify: i.e., if you were in an inertial frame, pseudo forces could not be present. But identifying the fact that you are in the frame where the sum of the momentum of the universe is zero is not such an easy task. That brings up a unappreciated fact about conventional physics normally ignored by the physics professionals. In standard conventional physics, they will tell you that the speed of light is c but, if you are a reasonable person, you should comprehend that this statement can not be logically defended. There exists absolutely no way to measure the actual speed of light because, to do so would require setting two clocks to agree (one at each end of the path) and every procedure I am aware of for accomplishing that task makes the assumption that the speed of light is c. What most physicists are talking about when they say that the speed of light is c is that the round trip distance divided by the time to make the trip is c. There exists no way to prove that the speed of light in one direction is the same as the speed of light in the opposite direction (that is in fact the very essence of the Michelson-Morley null result). What is important here is the fact that they are making a very significant assumption. That assumption being that there exists no way to establish a unique frame of reference. An assumption by the way which is in clear violation of their experimental analysis of reality: if your frame of reference were to get very far from the rest frame of our galaxy the microwave background of the universe would become quite Doppler shifted and this very fact is actually being used today to talk about the velocity of the earth through the universe.

What I want you to do is keep in mind is the fact that Lorentz-FitzGerald contraction is the central experimental result of significance here. If that issue is indeed a fact then all of special relativity (the transformation equations of interest) fall out as required. All I am trying to do is to get you to look at relativity from a slightly different perspective. The two issues I want to build upon are, first, if a paradigm yields the proper contraction, all of relativity can be deduced and, second, there is nothing in relativity to preclude a single preferred reference frame (the real issue of relativity being that there exists no way to “locally” prove you are in that specific frame: a direct consequence of Lorentz-FitzGerald contraction).

So, moving on to my fundamental equation, I would like to point out that the equation is scale invariant. Notice that the term I have referred to as the “interaction term” is entirely built of Dirac delta function interactions. These functions only have value when the argument is zero. It follows that the scale of the arguments is of no consequence. If you were to multiply every numerical index by some fixed number “a”, all the arguments I made for that fundamental equation go through exactly as they did before the scale adjustment. You should see that as quite a reasonable fact. The length measurements to be used in your description of your world view must arise out of the data supporting that world view and is not given a-priori as some kind of information above and beyond all other things. This is no more than another symmetry embedded in the problem which you have solved with your flaw-free epistemological construct and it must be embedded in your solution.

This fact brings up a rather important possible inconsistency. If you have found a solution to that equation for some subset of all the information available to you, your frame of reference must be at rest with respect to that subset of information (think in terms of a universe where there is no information outside that subset). Suppose you then find a solution for some different subset of information. That solution must reside in a frame of reference at rest with respect to that second subset of information. Now, if you try to combine those two solutions you are confronted by the fact that they may well be in different reference frames. The question arises as to how both solutions can be consistent with that fundamental equation since the equation is only valid in a specified rest frame. There is only one answer to the question: the form of the equation cannot change in going from one frame to the other.

If you have the specific solution in each frame, it is a trivial issue to discover the motion of the origin of one frame in the other reference frame and thus establish the velocity of that frame as seen from the other. The only question is, what change in our arguments will make those two problems identical. The solution is quite simple; all we need is a method of transforming the equation from one frame to the other. And here we are quite lucky as others have already found the required transformation many many years ago. If you look at my equation and temporarily ignore the “interaction terms” which are totally scale invariant, the similarity between

\left\{\sum_i \vec{\alpha}_i \cdot \nabla_i + \sum_{i neq j}\beta_{ij}\delta(x_i -x_j)\delta(\tau_i - \tau_j) \right\}\vec{\psi} = K\frac{\partial}{\partial t}\vec{\psi} = iKm\vec{\psi}

and Maxwell's equation for the propagation of photons should be obvious. All we need do to make this equation the same in both frames is exactly the same Lorentz-FitzGerald contraction required by the Michelson-Morley experiment. Since my equation is scale invariant, this merely says that the epistemological constructs of your flaw-free solution must obey special relativity. What you need to recognize here is that this is no statement about reality, it is merely a statement about your expectations and the method you use to achieve them.

As a statement about reality, it makes the assumption that separate pieces of the information known to you can be regarded as independent of one another; an assumption which could be false. But it is not a statement about reality; it is a statement about your expectations, quite another matter. If your expectations are based upon the fact that other information available to you can be ignored then, in order to be flaw-free, your explanation must conform to special relativity.

Please, if you believe you can see an error in my arguments, let me know about it.

Have fun -- Dick
  #1 (permalink)  
By Essay on 04-22-2008
Re: A rather unorthodox view of relativity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctordick View Post
The most important observation occurs in the very end of that post and has to do with the fact that


\sum_q \frac{\partial}{\partial x_q}\vec{\psi} = 0

is valid in only one specific frame of reference.
The problem is that my equation is not valid unless the entire universe is included (i.e., absolutely all relevant information is expressed in terms of those numerical labels we have indexed) and that makes the issue non trivial.
...very nice symbology, elegant.
I'd like a T-shirt with that:
"...and G0d spoke:"
\sum_q \frac{\partial}{\partial x_q}\vec{\psi} = 0
"...and there was light."

===
"But it is not a statement about reality; it is a statement about your expectations, quite another matter."
...no pun intended, I'm sure....

It is a nice statement that I hope to share with others who seek to help people "get a handle on" or define important, but commonly used words like "fact, truth, theory, and law."

"But it is not a statement about reality; it is a statement about your expectations [which are limited to your perceptions, and by your preconceptions], quite another matter."

Is that fair?
Last edited by Essay; 04-23-2008 at 02:24 AM.. Reason: equation format
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  #2 (permalink)  
By Doctordick on 04-22-2008
Re: A rather unorthodox view of relativity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Essay View Post
"But it is not a statement about reality; it is a statement about your expectations [which are limited to your perceptions, and by your preconceptions], quite another matter."

Is that fair?
Absolutely; however, can you give me any statements about reality which are not, in essence, statements about your expectations? And exactly what are your perceptions if they are not a facet of your expectations? What you have to understand is that understanding itself constitutes having expectations consistent with what you think you know. Please, what else is there? Or, more to the point, what else can there be which you can defend?

Have fun -- Dick
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  #3 (permalink)  
By Essay on 04-22-2008
Re: A rather unorthodox view of relativity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctordick View Post
Absolutely; however, can you give me any statements about reality which are not, in essence, statements about your expectations? And exactly what are your perceptions if they are not a facet of your expectations? What you have to understand is that understanding itself constitutes having expectations consistent with what you think you know. Please, what else is there? Or, more to the point, what else can there be which you can defend?

Have fun -- Dick
You said, "...it is a statement about your expectations...."

I was following your convention; but maybe I should have phrased it as '...one's perceptions, and by one's preconceptions.'

p.s. re: my parenthetical addition,
"[which are limited to your perceptions, and by your preconceptions]"

I'm in total agreement; relativity (or any formalism) doesn't necessarily inform us about the true nature of reality.
...or am I misunderstanding something?
Last edited by Essay; 04-22-2008 at 06:47 PM.. Reason: added p.s.
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  #4 (permalink)  
By Doctordick on 04-23-2008
Re: A rather unorthodox view of relativity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Essay View Post
I was following your convention; but maybe I should have phrased it as '...one's perceptions, and by one's preconceptions.'
How can you have perceptions without presuming your senses? And “preconceptions”? Where did they come from? All you know or think you know must be built from information which is totally undefined. The definitions themselves are epistemological structures. The problem of understanding reality can be put in a nutshell. The problem is one of constructing a rational model of a totally unknown universe given nothing but a totally undefined stream of data which has been transcribed by a totally undefined process. That is the problem I have solved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essay View Post
...or am I misunderstanding something?
I have no way of knowing the answer to that question. I have not the slightest idea as to what is going on in your head as I have no knowledge of what portion of what I have written you have read.

Essentially, what I have shown to date is that if one takes the position that the job of a research scientist is to search out the rules which separate the "true" universe from all possible universes, then no classical experiment can provide any guidance on the subject whatsoever. What I have presented up to this point is a pure tautology applicable to any body of information which can be referred to. Classical mechanics is itself a tautology. And I am ready to extend that tautology well beyond what I have already laid out. This thread is nothing but a side note on how relativity arises in that tautology and arguments that the result is experimentally exactly what is produced by Einstein's theory.

Have you perused the thread “What can we know of reality?”?

Have fun -- Dick
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  #5 (permalink)  
By Essay on 04-23-2008
Re: A rather unorthodox view of relativity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctordick View Post
Essentially, what I have shown to date is that if one takes the position that the job of a research scientist is to search out the rules which separate the "true" universe from all possible universes, then no classical experiment can provide any guidance on the subject whatsoever. What I have presented up to this point is a pure tautology applicable to any body of information which can be referred to. Classical mechanics is itself a tautology. And I am ready to extend that tautology well beyond what I have already laid out. This thread is nothing but a side note on how relativity arises in that tautology and arguments that the result is experimentally exactly what is produced by Einstein's theory.

Have you perused the thread “What can we know of reality?”?

Have fun -- Dick
...and again, I agree with your point above.
As I first said, I'd like to quote this for folks who need help understanding concepts like fact, truth, reality, law, etc.

Regarding “What can we know of reality?”
I'm sure I've seen it (I'll look again), but for the same reasons you point out, I try to avoid nailing down a vision of reality; and so don't want to get too involved in a discussion.

Quote:
NOW about my first post and reply:
My apologies for being so obtuse; in an attempt to be subtle, I suppose.

Allow me to start over; re: your formalism,

\sum_q \frac{\partial}{\partial x_q}\vec{\psi} = 0

I agree wholeheartedly with your conclusion.

I especially liked your sentence:
"But it is not a statement about reality; it is a statement about your expectations, quite another matter."
...and similarly:
"What you need to recognize here is that this is no statement about reality, it is merely a statement about your expectations and the method you use to achieve them. "

The mistake I may be making is equating "statement about reality" with your elegant, simplified, all-inclusive, formalism; but I don't think that is my mistake (but..?).

I think you are saying that your formalism still does not necessarily describe, or make a "statement about reality."
...and that as a formalism it is still limited to describing only what we can perceive or think of to perceive (or think of to measure).
...or maybe: It can function only to explain what we are capable of expecting it to explain?

When you referred to "expectations," I hoped to elaborate and added parenthetically, that expectations are "limited by one's perceptions and preconceptions;" asking finally, if that was a fair assessment.
I see elaboration like that as a way of confirming if I understood what you were saying.

I did read all of your post. It's been several years since I "learned" all that stuff, but it still looked familiar and coherent; and I liked where you led it to.
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  #6 (permalink)  
By Rade on 04-23-2008
Re: A rather unorthodox view of relativity.

Doctordick, as I understand the case, special relativity was a very important step to "general relativity" theory--that is, Einstein realized that special relativity was incomplete. But (a very important BUT I think), without special relativity Einstein never could have moved to the thought processes needed for general relativity. And, although a revolutionary idea, special relativity only shows that space and time do not have independent existences, they are not absolute, but form a fabric of spacetime that is relative. And this fabric does not provide a "static" view of "reality" as you claim. The physicist Brian Green sums it up nicely (that is, the dynamic aspect of "reality" by merging Einstein special relativity with general relativity):

"Space and time become players in the evolving cosmos. They come alive...general relativity provides the choreography for an entwined cosmic dance of space, time, matter, and energy" (B. Green, 2004, The fabric of the Cosmos:Space, time, and the texture of reality. Knopf, NY).

Doctordick, perhaps you have derived an alternative view of reality than Einstein concerning "time", but to say that Einstein thinking about relativity theory leads to a "static" view of reality is not accurate.
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  #7 (permalink)  
By Essay on 04-23-2008
Re: A rather unorthodox view of relativity.

P.S.
to my previous post:
Quote:
RE:
Regarding “What can we know of reality?”
I'm sure I've seen it (I'll look again), but for the same reasons you point out, I try to avoid nailing down a vision of reality; and so don't want to get too involved in a discussion.
Yep, that was the one....
23 long pages; that's why I responded here (much less to read).

These past few years I'm focusing on climate change and saving a future so others can continue these fascinating metaphysical discussions into the future.
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  #8 (permalink)  
By Doctordick on 04-26-2008
Re: A rather unorthodox view of relativity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rade View Post
"Space and time become players in the evolving cosmos. They come alive...general relativity provides the choreography for an entwined cosmic dance of space, time, matter, and energy" (B. Green, 2004, The fabric of the Cosmos:Space, time, and the texture of reality. Knopf, NY).

Doctordick, perhaps you have derived an alternative view of reality than Einstein concerning "time", but to say that Einstein thinking about relativity theory leads to a "static" view of reality is not accurate.
Rade, do you understand the meaning of the word “obfuscate”? In Einstein's picture, “The fabric of the Cosmos:Space, time, and the texture of reality” is as “dynamic” as a canned reel of movie film. The fact that examination of that film in sequence (i.e., a projection) gives you an impression of a dynamic occurrence has absolutely nothing to do with the physical nature of the film itself. The actual nature of the film is static and “calling the distance along the film “time” does not make the film into a dynamic entity. All the physicists are doing is obfuscating the fact that their space-time picture is static (there is no mechanism for change) and that is exactly why there is a conflict between quantum and relativity theory and the difficulty goes right up through to include general relativity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rade View Post
And, although a revolutionary idea, special relativity only shows that space and time do not have independent existences, they are not absolute, but form a fabric of spacetime that is relative.
It “shows” no such thing. That is purely an assumption embedded in the theory itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essay View Post
23 long pages; that's why I responded here (much less to read).
That makes it quite clear that you do not understand what I am talking about. The central relationship being discussed is

\left\{\sum_i \vec{\alpha}_i \cdot \nabla_i + \sum_{i neq j}\beta_{ij}\delta(x_i -x_j)\delta(\tau_i - \tau_j) \right\}\vec{\psi} = K\frac{\partial}{\partial t}\vec{\psi} = iKm\vec{\psi}

and if you do not know what the symbols in that expression stand for and why that equation must be true, there is no comprehension of what I am talking about. If you have any interest in what I am saying, start with post #33 and follow my conversation with Anssi. That would only be a small fraction of the posts on that thread. If that is too much for you to read, don't worry about it.

\sum_i \frac{\partial}{\partial x_i}\vec{\psi} = 0

is a mere facet of that representation.

Have fun -- Dick
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  #9 (permalink)  
By AnssiH on 04-26-2008
Re: A rather unorthodox view of relativity.

Just wanted to comment that this seems to make perfect sense to me. If the fundamental equation can be used to yield special relativity, it can certainly be used to yield any logically equivalent take on the same matter.

If the fundamental equation does not have any fatal flaws, then I cannot fathom what is it in it that makes physicists look away... ...other than the annoyingly persistent tendency to confuse ontology with predictive models of reality. Why do people do that? It is kind of amazing to me. In fact, there has been fair amount of "groping among mere concepts" in this thread already, I would say...

The title refers to "unorthodox view", and let me just mention that the typical "orthodox view" (as commented by Brian Green), is an arbitrary interpretation of the math. Amazingly arbitrary.

Actually before I get to that, I need to comment that the OP actually seems to make some sloppy comments regarding the history of special relativity. These are irrelevant to the logic of the argument, but any sort of sloppiness may put off some people who would otherwise find the argument quite reasonable.

I'm sorry I will also be somewhat sloppy now as I have no time to look for references, but as far as I know;
Einstein has claimed he did not even know about M&M experiment when he put out the first paper about special relativity. There was other problems (e.g. where the electromagnetic field of an object "points" when that object is moving or when it is stationary) that ultimately led to the re-definition of simultaneity as relative to direction of motion, and rest followed; it is that definition that opened the door to this new model, and also constrained everything else in the model the way they are today.

I do not know what sort of ontological take Einstein had about all this at first (if any), but let it be said that it was his old math teacher, Minkowski, who only couple years later pushed the idea of conceiving special relativity in terms of 4-dimensional spacetime. Einstein has commented that at first he did not think much of that idea, but later he certainly did come to think of his model in exactly those terms.

And yes Rade, that view is static (depending on what you happen to mean by "static" and "dynamic" exactly). Like Doctordick mentioned, that view is dynamic the same way as a moving film reel is dynamic, and I have commented quite a few times that you tend to end up to (slightly incoherent) dualistic view if you really feel the need to lift that interpretation into "ontologically real" status... (some people actually do like to imagine their "consciousness" running through that static spacetime )

But now, without bothering how we got there, take a good look at that end result; that 4-dimensional spacetime which marks all the events that ever were and ever will be, and that completely defines the causality of everything.

Notice now that any relativistic simultaneity planes - the original key components of the model - are completely immaterial/unobservable entities.

Likewise, the "scale transformation" (allow me to call it that because that is what it is) that is performed for the whole spacetime when you move from one inertial frame to another, will never have ANY effect on the events and their causality that has been defined into that spacetime; that transformation is also completely immaterial/unobservable thing.

I can't imagine anyone has got any problems with the assertions in the previous paragraph, so seems to me it is to be expected that there exists, if one could be bothered to look, a wide variety of models that actually yield everything that "relative simultaneity" yields in that all-familiar geometrical analysis of space & time. There should be nothing unorthodox in me saying that. Claiming that we are a consciousness flying through a static spacetime - or pushing any ontological interpretation for that matter - should be unorthodox to scientific community since it is, did I already say it, arbitrary interpretation of logic.

I'm sorry I cannot be completely crystal clear in this post, I need to go to sleep right now, I'll clarify unclear comments later

-Anssi
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