Hydrogen Product By Photovoltaic Electolytic Cell

[freeztar]

Originally Posted by Turtle

*disclaimer: for the record I did not drank any of the 'stuff'. .

Don't go smelling it either!!

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by GAHD

Try using carbon for your electrodes, it doesn't oxidize. Mechanical pencil refills work perfectly in such applications. Make sure your transmission wire to the electrode as well as connection points are totally shielded.

Roger Wilco. I have near the full 20 oz bottle of Hydrogen now and will soon conclude the experiment. I just scavenged a pair of graphite contacts from a motor and will save them for another electrolysis experiment.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Turtle

Roger Wilco. I have near the full 20 oz bottle of Hydrogen now and will soon conclude the experiment. I just scavenged a pair of graphite contacts from a motor and will save them for another electrolysis experiment.

On the 30th, the bottle filled with hydrogen, bobbed to the surface of the electrolyte, and leaked the gas to the atmosphere. All in all, ~ 8, eight-hour days of variable sunlight produced 20 fluid ounces of Hydrogen gas at ~ 1 atmosphere pressure, along with an indeterminate amount and content of ooky goo. That's a wrap.

[freeztar]

Originally Posted by Turtle

On the 30th, the bottle filled with hydrogen, bobbed to the surface of the electrolyte, and leaked the gas to the atmosphere.

Did you have plans for it?

All in all, ~ 8, eight-hour days of variable sunlight produced 20 fluid ounces of Hydrogen gas at ~ 1 atmosphere pressure, along with an indeterminate amount and content of ooky goo. That's a wrap.

That seems like a poor production amount per time. Actually, it seems surprisingly low. I wonder how much was lost through inefficiencies such as the electrode and the bottle (the PET issue Craig brought up earlier was never addressed, in regards to H2).

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by freeztar

Did you have plans for it?



That seems like a poor production amount per time. Actually, it seems surprisingly low. I wonder how much was lost through inefficiencies such as the electrode and the bottle (the PET issue Craig brought up earlier was never addressed, in regards to H2).

Very slow I agree, even by my standards. But, it's free once set up & going and if the panels aren't doing other work it at least provides a means of converting one form of usable energy to another.

Which brings me to the plans for the gas, which were to insert a vinyl tube down into the electrolyte & up into the top of the hydrogen collection bottle and then hook it to a simple metal burner pipe ala a Bunsen burner. I expect in that setup, that as the gas is drawn out of the bottle to burn, electrolye will reenter the bottle and fill it again as all the hydrogen is burned. If all that didn't fail, I planned to time how long the burn lasted.

[Qfwfq]

Originally Posted by Turtle

Which brings me to the plans for the gas, which were to insert a vinyl tube down into the electrolyte & up into the top of the hydrogen collection bottle and then hook it to a simple metal burner pipe ala a Bunsen burner. I expect in that setup, that as the gas is drawn out of the bottle to burn, electrolye will reenter the bottle and fill it again as all the hydrogen is burned. If all that didn't fail, I planned to time how long the burn lasted.

I'd be very careful with that. You don't have any check as to whether some of the oxygen ended up mixed in with the hydrogen, a plausible thing seeing you were getting so much copper oxide. In this case, according to whether or not the burner is exactly suitable to the purpose and how long it's been since Vladmir Putin last sneezed, there's a serious likelihood of the flame front propagating right into the bottle while it's still full of the gas mix.

A bottle of the mix can be enough to knock quite a few things down.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Qfwfq

I'd be very careful with that. You don't have any check as to whether some of the oxygen ended up mixed in with the hydrogen, a plausible thing seeing you were getting so much copper oxide. In this case, according to whether or not the burner is exactly suitable to the purpose and how long it's been since Vladmir Putin last sneezed, there's a serious likelihood of the flame front propagating right into the bottle while it's still full of the gas mix.

A bottle of the mix can be enough to knock quite a few things down.

Good advice Q. The burner part of the experiment, especially the first try, is definately an outdoor project.

Originally Posted by Freezmaton

I wonder how much was lost through inefficiencies such as the electrode and the bottle (the PET issue Craig brought up earlier was never addressed, in regards to H2).

I gathered from those references the PET plastic is not Hydrogen permeable. I left the system disconnected while I went on holiday and when I returned the level was as when I left; I don't think any H escaped the bottle until it bobbed up to the surface & the gas leaked right out the bottle neck.

If I get around to trying this again I will try the graphite electrodes. I have done this experiment before & used sodium hydroxide (drano crystals) in the electrolyte as I read it makes more Hydrogen available, however it is dangerous if mishandled. It burns!!! it burns!!!!

[freeztar]

Originally Posted by Turtlemaker

I gathered from those references the PET plastic is not Hydrogen permeable. I left the system disconnected while I went on holiday and when I returned the level was as when I left; I don't think any H escaped the bottle until it bobbed up to the surface & the gas leaked right out the bottle neck.

I can't see where you gathered it from. By "references", do you mean the wiki link Craig gave?

Here's a quote from that wiki article on PET:

When produced as a thin film (often known by the tradename Mylar), PET is often coated with aluminium to reduce its permeability, and to make it reflective and opaque. PET bottles are excellent barrier materials and are widely used for soft drinks, (see carbonation)...
For certain specialty bottles, PET sandwiches an additional polyvinyl alcohol to further reduce its oxygen permeability.

If the best they can do with PET is reduce it's O2 permeability, then I would reason that H2 is definitely permeable. Unfortunately they don't quantify "excellent barrier materials" in terms of permeability, but I think it's safe to assume that not much H2 is lost through the PET (especially in a weeks time).

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by freeztar

I can't see where you gathered it from. By "references", do you mean the wiki link Craig gave?

Here's a quote from that wiki article on PET:


If the best they can do with PET is reduce it's O2 permeability, then I would reason that H2 is definitely permeable. Unfortunately they don't quantify "excellent barrier materials" in terms of permeability, but I think it's safe to assume that not much H2 is lost through the PET (especially in a weeks time).

It seems the hydrogen atom is so small that in general it can react with most materials. Given the potential for explosion, the plastic at least is unlikely to produce shrapnel as metal or glass could.

In running down the corrosive effects of Hydrogen I found this article well suited to this thread as well as the H core discussion.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by freeztar

I can't see where you gathered it from. By "references", do you mean the wiki link Craig gave?

Here's a quote from that wiki article on PET:


If the best they can do with PET is reduce it's O2 permeability, then I would reason that H2 is definitely permeable. Unfortunately they don't quantify "excellent barrier materials" in terms of permeability, but I think it's safe to assume that not much H2 is lost through the PET (especially in a weeks time).

It seems the hydrogen atom is so small that in general it can react with most materials. Given the potential for explosion, the plastic at least is unlikely to produce shrapnel as metal or glass could.

In running down the corrosive effects of Hydrogen I found this article well suited to this thread as well as the H core discussion.

OilPro - Tech Notes - Corrosion is just the pits

Originally Posted by oilpro

... Hydrogen Corrosion

I learned about Hydrogen Corrosion from Mr. Hank Andersen of Andersen Quality Assurance and Consulting Inc., when we were inspecting a used treater. Hydrogen may cause a number of problems, and I most often see hydrogen corrosion in pressure vessels. Hydrogen is a small enough molecule that it can migrate through steel and remain inside the material. Hydrogen atoms are formed due to chemical reactions caused elsewhere in the process. Once the single atom meets up with another Hydrogen, it becomes a larger molecule, which can no longer migrate back out of the material. ...