A new way of extracting Hydrogen from water with great efficiency.

GAHD · 06-30-2005

Better to use hydro-electric or a lead-cooled nuclear reactor.

nkt · 07-01-2005

It doesn't really matter where the electricity comes from, since you would have to generate it to make the hydrogen anyway.

My point is, you will only need about 30% of the total electrical energy if you use it directly as electricity, rather than converting it into hydrogen first, then back into water, by using a hydrogen combustion engine. If you use a good fuel cell, you can get higher efficiencies, but not as good as a good electrical system.

Remember - Hydrogen in a net CONSUMER of power, not a source!

EDIT: In fact, even in the OP, they quote 50% losses in the new "high efficiency" conversion!

alexander · 07-01-2005

the problem is, how are you going to power cars with that electricity, because there is not that many batteries yet that can charge as fast as you can fill up a tank of fuel in a car. Probably with the only exception of that toshiba battery that is still in development and is to go into production sometime next year that gains 90% of its charge in like 3 minutes, and after something like 1000 recharges only looses 1 or something around there something percent of its total capacily.

Quote:

hydro-electric or a lead-cooled nuclear reactor

why? hydro electric power is good and all, but it nowhere reaches the temperatures that are intended to be used to split that 800 degree water into hydrogen and oxygen. The lead-cooled nuclear rector is an interesting choice, if it provides the efficiency that is higher then the reactor that is propposed to be used in the project, and dont forget that that reactor will put out electricity in the grid as well as hydrogen. Oh and i do agree that our current methods of hydrogen use to produce electricity are quite bad ans inefficient, but as time goes on, who knows what will come out of this...

biochemrex · 09-22-2005

It sounds very interesting, but also intensely dangerous. There is a commercial process of extracting oxygen from air by zeolites. It is used for home units for patients and hospitals. Getting hydrogen out of water on the cheap like that is most attractive, but there is such a lot of binding energy, but who would have thought you could produce diamond at low temp and pressure? I am much more open minded than I once was. Keith

HydrogenBond · 09-26-2005

Hydrogen containment was already figured out during the develop of the H-bomb in the 1950's. Carbon fiber filiament winded spheres coated with epoxy are light and very strong, i.e,, 15K psi easily. The better way is something analogous to H-bomb fuel, lithium deuteride or hydride. It is a solid, therefore, no pressure problem, and one is able to store a lot of hydrogen in a small space. One would have to use some of the heat to extract the hydrogen. While the metal cation matrix should be reuseable.

HydrogenBond · 09-26-2005

I always thought the cheapest way to extract hydrogen from water would be to harness the electrochemical potential between ocean brine and fresh water (rivers) that flow into the ocean. This small chemical potential can be amplified to what is needed, it is free and is constantly generated by weather. One hurricane produces way more freah water than anybody wants. That's a lot of free hydrogen production.

techhowse · 09-26-2005

ok this might be off topic but since alexander mentioned about powering cars....

How does one calculate the efficency of a system? eg. gasoline combustion engine.

If one is using a engine powered by air, how do we calculate the effieciency of that system?

biochemrex · 09-27-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by HydrogenBond

I always thought the cheapest way to extract hydrogen from water would be to harness the electrochemical potential between ocean brine and fresh water (rivers) that flow into the ocean. This small chemical potential can be amplified to what is needed, it is free and is constantly generated by weather. One hurricane produces way more freah water than anybody wants. That's a lot of free hydrogen production.

This is known as The Concentration Cell. It has been proposed in Australia by a CSIRO Scientist - Dr Black I think is his name? It sounds good to me, but I cannot get anyone interested. Keith

biochemrex · 09-27-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by HydrogenBond

Hydrogen containment was already figured out during the develop of the H-bomb in the 1950's. Carbon fiber filiament winded spheres coated with epoxy are light and very strong, i.e,, 15K psi easily. The better way is something analogous to H-bomb fuel, lithium deuteride or hydride. It is a solid, therefore, no pressure problem, and one is able to store a lot of hydrogen in a small space. One would have to use some of the heat to extract the hydrogen. While the metal cation matrix should be reuseable.

In theory the big energy saving of electrical carts is regeneration. In theory - if there was no friction it would not cost anything toi travel from A to B. However there is a lot of resistance loss in regenerative braking. On the other hand the carbon fibre containment makes compressed air a viable system for propelling cars. Such a car is under development in Europe and one has been built in Australia. In such, regenerative braking is far more efficient and one can top up the tank with electricity - just pump in air - very fast.
Keith