perception of time

[Tormod]

"In order to perceive time, one must percieve self. "

Freethinker, that is a claim which I think requires some proof.

Tormod

[Tormod]

[quote]
Originally posted by: Freethinker

Time is relative? You may be on to something there! :-)

No you did not use the word "time", but motion requires time. Therefore "slow" motion would indicate a relative shift in the passage of time. Or perhaps a shift in the relative passage of time? Anyway. To say you did not mean to involve time when talking of motion is impossible.

Well, as this boils down to a pedantic "wrong phrase" discussion, at least I can point out that I said "the *perception* of time is relative", not that time is relative.

We are talking about experiences which are *not* extaordinary (nobody here has argued that anything supernatural has happened). They show that we can percieve/experience/feel (however you prefer it) that the passage of time (form our point of reference, yes) has changed.

Yet none of us claim that these experiences DO change time, only our perception of it's passage - or more precise, that it is possible to have experiences in which you find that events pass more slowly (or quicker, I'm sure) than usual.

Sorry but I fail to see that your arguments cast any light on this matter other than telling us that the experiences were natural, which we all agree that they were.

Tormod

[Tormod]

As for insects and plants having a sense of self, here is some food for thought:

http://www.calacademy.org/calwild/2002fall/stories/counterpoints.html


It is a short essay on signs of perception of different kinds of self in animals and plants.

Tormod

[rileyj]

"experienced in slow motion" is relative. There is nothing about time that allows one individual control over it's passing."

if one was traveling close to the speed of light then time would move slower for that person compared to someone on earth.

[rileyj]

"It would be more accurate to say that the frame of reference changed, and that it was PECEPTION, not TIME that changed."

that's what this is about "perception of time".

[rileyj]

Tim_lou, The original question was related to a flies PERCEPTION of time. I question whether a fly CAN "perceive" time. In order to perceive time, one must percieve self.

this is wrong,in order to understand time one must percieve time. animals percieve time as we do they just dont know of it. timing is very important when hunting or being hunted. theypercive the world as we do in their own way. how does the tiger know when to strick? he knows because he waits for the right moment. waiting requiers passing of time. therefore he know to wait, andknows when it is TIME to attack

[rileyj]

"nobody here has argued that anything supernatural has happened"

supernatural is something that doesn't normal happen. like when we percieve time to pass slower in times of great stress. we do not control this ourselves,and can not make it happen at will. surely if one could control this. and have faster than normal reaction time at will,it would be percieved as supernatural

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: TormodYet none of us claim that these experiences DO change time, only our perception of it's passage - or more precise, that it is possible to have experiences in which you find that events pass more slowly (or quicker, I'm sure) than usual.

Sorry but I fail to see that your arguments cast any light on this matter other than telling us that the experiences were natural, which we all agree that they were.

I was trying to differentiate between "experience" and "percieve". After review, I do not think it was valid. But that was why I threw it out there, so I could see if it stood. Plop! :-)

[lindagarrette]

When I dropped acid, I perceived time very differently than when I was thinking clearly.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Tormod
"In order to perceive time, one must percieve self. "

Freethinker, that is a claim which I think requires some proof.

It would seem emperically self evident. In order to "percieve time", one has to establish a relationship between two seperate instances. If two instances had nothing in common what so ever, then any time frame relationship between them would not be immediately evident. But if they shared a great deal of similarity in physical structure, with slight differences in, say, relative position, one could postulate a relative time differentiation.

Any "perception" of a delta-time would be based on the special position of the aware agent that was "perceiving" it. The perception would be based on that agent's relative location. They would have to have an awarness of their location in order to have an awareness of the different yet related events they perceieved. If they have an awarness of "their" location, they have a self awareness.

Thus in order for one to identify patterns that allow a perception of relative time, they have to have a relative time reference, which has to be themselves. Awarness of self as the reference point in order to percieve relative time.