The computer has a mind and life, teaching you how to prove it with experiments

[belovelife]

i think he is saying that the random factor its us, the user, the randomness of humanity is the formula for everything, the random time you spend on a page, in which case it is not neccisarrily a formula

[alexander]

Ok, so let me introduce you to the history of randomness generation:

In the beginning there was Jon von Neumann, a true pioneer of computing, he created one of the first algorithms to generate pseudorandom numbers. The algorithm takes a number for a base, then squares it, then drops first and last digits to get a "random" number, and then uses that number to generate the next pseudo-random number.

ex: start with 1234, square is 1522756, written as 8 digits 01522756, first and last 2 digits dropped, 5227, which is then used to achieve the next "random" number.


that was the first pseudo random number generator, works well, but it takes not too long to find a pattern in it, so in 1997 Mersenne twister algorithm came out to help with that, the algorithm has a period of which is more random then most applications require... but it is not truly chaotic, still has a period. The thing is, even though this is the maximum period for crypto applications, the algorithm does not see that much of an implementation in those values, most programming language libraries use algorithms that provide periods in ten's of thousands of generations, some times even less (built for performance, and is most of the time good enough)

i am working out the details for prediction matrix for your method, ufo, actually need to get my hands on my assembly book to finish this...

[alexander]

belovelife, how can one use that to generate random numbers at will? unless you keep statistics. even then, there are much more efficient algo's out there, and using computational time on a set of statistics, i just want to show you that that thinking is flawed, no matter where the data comes from, timing a computation has very limited results...

[litespeed]

JEEZE

Computers are now almost capable of insect intelligence in reproducing basic flight capacities. Of course they can not hunt, feed, reproduce, or bite anyone. It took 60 years for electronics to come to this level.

After another 60 years computers might advance to rodent capacity, but I think that might violate the basic electronic law that doubles capacity every "x" number of months.

[alexander]

there is code that makes some computers simulate intelligence to varying degrees of success, but computers by themselves are not intelligent, they compute by that react to some inputs, but they are not intelligent...

[Jetiku]

Actually reading all of this reminds me of something I seen on the science channel a few months back. According to the program they had a mechanical arm with some kind of random drop thing. It would move around "randomly" (which I agree doesnt exist... even human spontaneity isnt truly random) and when it would arrive over its target drop a ball or something. Anyways from what they said if there were people in the room wanting it to get over the target it would increase its rate drastically. Instead of taking 40 turns to reach the target on average it was taking 10 or something. Im not sure what the program was and dont care too much to look it up. Just these people finding results from "random" based operations that they want to happen with an increased likely hood reminded me of the program so I felt I should post it.

(also note I disagree with quantum theory on the existence of random. I believe everything falls into a complex equation)

[ufo911]

Actually there are no really random in the world. Just like the human being, when you want to do everything, there are a purpose behind the act. Just like you want to eat, it is because you are hungry. Why you are hungry, you are obliged to be feel hungry(everyone don't want to feel hungry on one's own initiative). Just like you love women, it is that you are obliged to love women or you love women on your own initiative. The final reason is you love women when you are born. You haven't any choice. As you analysis all the things in the world, you will know that all the thing is obliged to do something, behind all the act or all the things, threre are some strange purpose. And all these purpose is obliged to be thought.
The computer also as same as human being. When we design them, we obliged them to do all the thing. They haven't any freedom, however, it dosn't mean they haven't mind and life. They are as same as human being, feel ourselve obliged to do all the thing, just like us are obliged to eat or love women, however, it doesn't mean they haven't any willing to do the thing. Just like us, we obliged to do all the things,however, we feel we do those things on our own initiative.
If you can think the above principles entirely, you will understand how the computer has mind and life.
They are just like us, actually we are obliged to do everything, but we can feel the existance of ourself. The computers also are as same as us, they are obliged to do anything(actually they don't know they are obliged by us), but they also can feel their existance of themselve.

[ufo911]

Because the computers just like us, actually we are obliged to do everything, but we can feel the existance of ourself. The computers also are as same as us, they are obliged to do anything(actually they don't know they are obliged by us), but they also can feel their existance of themselve.

So when you give him some chance to let him obtain more freedom, they will act more according to their will. Just like you give him some chance to upload and download and run some programs at random, they will upload and download less chance with the shut down program. Becuase they hat shut down program.

It just like if I give you wings, you wil fly with freedom.

It just like in this period, the computer just has mind and life, but they haven't any arms and legs and eyes and mouth, but if you design some arms and legs and eyes and mouth for him, he will act more like a living creature.

Just like you just have the brain but havne't any five sense organs, you also are a human being. But you can not do everything. If I give you the legs, you will walk.

The computers also as same as us , you let him to do everything with random program just like I give you the legs and arms.

[buddyzen]

i do not usually like to be rude but a computer has not intellegence period...... only some religeous nut jobs think that there is computer intellegence and we are going to die =P


Ok think of a computer as a answer box if this is not to complicated for you. you ask a question and it tries to program it based on the input it has gotten from its programmers. a computer can not think on its own it can only do tasks that we command it or program it to do nothing more. yes we can make the computer do random things to make it seem like it has a mind of its own but no it does not... yet if that was possible we would have some great AI in video games right now Pshhh not like that is going to happen thoguh LOL !

[alexander]

Pheew, finally someone else who can't stand the madness...

Ok, there is random, in physics it's defined under entropy, and the things that are "truly" random, only get more and more random. Random also means chaotic last i recall our universe is really not chaotic, and that is due to a lot of controller forces, because from simulations truly chaotic spread of mater in the universe after the crunch would not lead to the formation of what we currently see... we would still be star dust somewhere out there in space...

but i submit to you a spread that has perhaps no period

we take a jar that is made out of a magical material that has 0 mass, there is nothing inside at all, it is out in a section of space where the crunch matter has not yet reached, we inject into the middle of this jar an n amount of gas via spontaneously making it appear and stir it up with an invisible straw, so to keep the temperature at a constant 273 degress Kelvin.

How do we predict the spread of atoms in that jar (oh and we can trace each one), after say a minute?

what if we repeat the experiment exactly the same way google times, do we have the same spread and do you reckon we will be able to find a pattern?

OK UFO before you post ANYTHING else about some other way to test your sentiment, please define:

living creature
feeling
freedom
existence
life
purpose
mind
thought
intelligence

so we are on the same page, also in those i dont want to see a single reference to computers

Lastly i want you to explain your view on how computers operate, and here i dont want a single reference to the terms: living, feeling, intelligent, purpose, thoughts or life. Your initial post did not talk about how they worked, really, so before you post anything else please, define and answer these questions and we will get back to what you said after that...