Moved from "Over Balanced Wheel - Perpetual Motion"

[Sir Isaac Einstein]

Moderation note: the first 32 posts of this thread were moved from the Engineering and Applied Science thread “Over Balanced Wheel - Perpetual Motion”, because the strange claim they discuss isn’t up to the standard of an engineering forum thread. When it improves, new posts will be moved back.

I agree with TEguy,
I myself, have designed an overbalancing wheel that has LESS weights
on the 'turning' side than on the 'opposing' side. The difference here being, the TOTAL
distance of all weights (added up), is less on the 'opposing' side, than on the turning
side ----- this is what causes the imbalance ----- NOT the number of weights!
For example; if the total distance, on one side of the hub, equals 50cms for 5 weights,
and each weight equals 10kgs, it is the same as placing one (1) weight (at 10kgs), at
the 'total distance' of ALL the weights ----- 50cms!
If, on the 'turning' side, the total distance is 100cms (even though there may well be less
weights), the wheel WILL overbalance.

Sir Isaac Einstein.

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by Sir Isaac Einstein

I agree with TEguy,
I myself, have designed an overbalancing wheel that has LESS weights
on the 'turning' side than on the 'opposing' side. The difference here being, the TOTAL
distance of all weights (added up), is less on the 'opposing' side, than on the turning
side ----- this is what causes the imbalance ----- NOT the number of weights!
For example; if the total distance, on one side of the hub, equals 50cms for 5 weights,
and each weight equals 10kgs, it is the same as placing one (1) weight (at 10kgs), at
the 'total distance' of ALL the weights ----- 50cms!
If, on the 'turning' side, the total distance is 100cms (even though there may well be less
weights), the wheel WILL overbalance.

Sir Isaac Einstein.

Sir Isaac Einstein, yes it will be over balanced but No it will not move of it's own accord. I suggest you do more than design and actually build a few of these devices. They do not work, friction always wins.

[Sir Isaac Einstein]

And Einstein is GOD is he?
Let me remind you, Einstein is 'brown-bread' ----- GOD is NOT!
Sir Isaac Einstein

[freeztar]

Originally Posted by Sir Isaac Einstein

And Einstein is GOD is he?
Let me remind you, Einstein is 'brown-bread' ----- GOD is NOT!
Sir Isaac Einstein

I'm not sure what that means, but I'm quite sure it is not on topic.

As Moontanman said, friction will win. I'm curious though. With the devices you have built, Sir Isaac, how have you tested them? What were your results? Are they still spinning?

[Sir Isaac Einstein]

With regard to 'freeztars' question; are my machines still spinning ----- the answer
is ----- I said I DESIGNED them ----- not built them!
I'm actualy incapable of building such devices, because of my medical condition.
I'm a pensioner, with bundles of problems.

Sir Isaac Einstein

[freeztar]

Originally Posted by Sir Isaac Einstein

With regard to 'freeztars' question; are my machines still spinning ----- the answer
is ----- I said I DESIGNED them ----- not built them!
I'm actualy incapable of building such devices, because of my medical condition.
I'm a pensioner, with bundles of problems.

Sir Isaac Einstein

If you have not built and tested one, then how are you so sure it works?

[Sir Isaac Einstein]

In reply to friction being one of the main causes of perpetual motion machines being unable to work,
then I ask these questions:- what amount of friction is required to stop an overbalanced wheel from
working?Is it just the 'right amount'? What amount?
If two identical coins (weight, size etc..), are placed at different distances ----- on a ruler, for example,
the ruler having first been balanced, giving it a 'pivoting' point ----- will it overbalance? Of course it
will! If friction were to stop this happening, no object, EVER, could overbalance. I don't think that's
right, do you?
The ONLY time friction could possibly stop overbalancing, would be if the two forces involved were
close together!
As an answer to 'freeztar', my answer is; have YOU ever built an overbalancing machine? I already
know the answer to this ----- NO!
Therefore sir, your question is invald!
But to be fair to you ----- no, I haven't built one -------------------- neither have you!

Sir Isaac Einstein

[Buffy]

Originally Posted by Sir Isaac Einstein

In reply to friction being one of the main causes of perpetual motion machines being unable to work, then I ask these questions:- what amount of friction is required to stop an overbalanced wheel from working? Is it just the 'right amount'? What amount?

Well, actually it's any amount.

Interestingly, an extremely large version of an overbalanced wheel is the Sun Wheel ride at Disney's California Adventure, which my daughter and I go on frequently:



I can assure you that it does require quite a bit of power, because the cars that slide back and forth between the center and the outer wheel--no matter how well greased and ball-bearinged--do induce friction. Even if you were to add the additional weight of magnets to make the sliding "frictionless" in fact, there is friction between magnets even if there is no contact.

Originally Posted by Sir Isaac Einstein

If two identical coins (weight, size etc..), are placed at different distances ----- on a ruler, for example, the ruler having first been balanced, giving it a 'pivoting' point ----- will it overbalance? Of course it will!

Well, actually they'll just sit there if you balance them. "overbalancing" will require the initial input of an external force to the system. Of course a balanced ruler cannot have continuous motion because it will either stay balanced or it will fall to one side or the other: there are only brief periods of motion for a ruler, and all require application of outside force to cause that motion.

I'd encourage you to get a ruler out and try your own experiment.

Originally Posted by Sir Isaac Einstein

have YOU ever built an overbalancing machine? I already know the answer to this ----- NO!

I loved to play with magnets when I was a kid. Trying to get them to levitate by inhibiting lateral motion, or inducing motion is really cool.

Such experimentation will also show that most of the time after any initial induced motion, the system comes to rest: set up a series of magnets that "levitate" and give the "car" a push and it slows to a stop even with no contact.

You should try it! It would be quite enlightening!

We are more ready to try the untried when what we do is inconsequential. Hence the fact that many inventions had their birth as toys,
Buffy

[Sir Isaac Einstein]

With the ruler experiment ----- I'm affraid you've missunderstood what was written.
I said, I said the coins were to be placed at DIFFERENT DISTANCES ----- then they would
overbalance ----- not at the same distance, where they WOULD balance.
You keep making the same mistake.
Read the book ----- not the cover!

Sir Isaac Einstein

[freeztar]

Originally Posted by Sir Isaac Einstein

As an answer to 'freeztar', my answer is; have YOU ever built an overbalancing machine? I already
know the answer to this ----- NO!
Therefore sir, your question is invald!
But to be fair to you ----- no, I haven't built one -------------------- neither have you!

Nor will I likely ever build one. Though if I did, I would need your design. Care to share it?

You made the claim. The onus of proof is on you.
Lots of things look good on paper, but the proof is in the pudding.