Guantanamo Bay: Shame on you, United States

[Michaelangelica]

We must ridicule, rebuke and rebut anyone - doctors, politicians - associated with torture and the removal of human rights
By Johann Hari
The Independent, London
GUANTANAMO BAY (Mar 10, 2007)

Guantanamo Bay -- America's shining torture camp on a hill -- is humming with new activity this week. Fourteen newbies have arrived, almost certainly from secret CIA prisons in Eastern Europe, where they have been waterboarded into passivity. They include Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, accused of masterminding the 9/11 massacres, and a man known as Hambali who allegedly planned the Bali bombing in which 200 innocent clubbers were incinerated. There won't be much time to settle in: the show-trials begin immediately. In these new military tribunals, the defendants can be shut out of their own trial at any time (along with their lawyers), evidence acquired via torture is admissible, and the accused can end up convicted on the basis of evidence they have not seen and cannot challenge.

The Bush administration propaganda -- we don't torture, there will be a fair legal process -- is unusually ridiculous, even by their standards. When Congress tried to pass a blanket ban on the use of torture by U.S. forces last year, the president demanded an exemption for the CIA. What is that, if not a tacit admission? In what way are these trials fair? We have become so numbed to the idea of Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib and Bagram Airbase after five years that it's worth remembering: we are talking about a string of prison camps where a democratic country, supported by us, is torturing people to death.

This is not a matter of bad apples; it is a problem with the barrel. Out of mor

Hamilton Spectator - News

search for "Guantanamo"

[ErlyRisa]

WE ARE AUSTRALIAN



I was going to look for the MP3, but couldn't be bothered,,, for those internationals that are interested --> it's a good luagh, its the default Australian anthem, or atleast a close 2nd to Cold Chisel's Chesan.

PS, for those in Ukrania, we in Melbourne apologise (the silent majority atleast) for embarrasing one of your Country men and duaghters.... we hope that in your heart you find to forgive us and our somewhat totalitarian media.
(only 3 major sources of information in Australia, inwhich all of them co-operate on daily information haording and censorship)

[Michaelangelica]

In his criticism of the US military commissions, Fraser finds himself in good company. In 2006, no less than 422 eminent members of the United Kingdom and European parliaments in their submission in the Hamdan case said this: "The threat of terrorism is real. Governments around the world confront the dangers and the hard choices posed by confronting those dangers. To meet the danger, the world needs not only military might but renewed and sustained commitment to the rule of law and to fundamental principles of human dignity and respect for human rights. In short, the world needs the United States to resume its role as a standard bearer for the principles of the rule of law and the protection of human rights and fundamental freedoms which are the shared heritage of a civilised world."

In the interests of international legal order, Australia would do well to awaken its ally, the US, and encourage it to regain its position as the global leader in advancing the cause of human rights.

Mirabella wrong on all counts - Opinion - theage.com.au

[ErlyRisa]

Um . let me guess... your a scientist living on the coast of NSW?

-Gloating in glee now that he's "voted out the fascist".

Fraser is an idiot - always was, always will be, and in his senility is has joined the ranks of Goth and yes even Kennet's beyond Blue moustache (although I know how much you guys up thier would love to get your hands on him - especially now) --what would of set it off is if Kennet actually dyed his moustaffa blue!!

Sadly, no-one serious or with any inkling towards being intouch with reality could listen to a word any of the above have to say (as a matter of fact - anything that is ever said in the public domain)

-Quite Ironic that you quoted another mainstay monopoly. (Fairfax, The Age)
, especially seeing as that it is done through a medium (the net), which could almost enable the user to be unrestricted by colloquial mind trains.

you could of sent something like this....




--at least then I could have pictured you with a beard.

(no harm intended mate... but I had some spare time too -- don't we all?,- to be here?)

[REASON]

So what's your philosophy on torture ER? Sounds to me like you kind of get off on it. Maybe you'd think differently if you found yourself on the rack.

Or mayby all your little snide, immature comments directed at Michael are because you think nobody from another country has the right to criticize the current policy of our government or the US in general.

Well, you'd better get over it, because if this is the kind of message that we are going to send out to the world than we shouldn't be surprised by a negative reaction. Personally, I am completely embarrassed by the behavior of the current administration and their torture policy (among countless other things). There is absolutely no excuse for it.

How can we claim to be the beacon of democracy on one hand, while stripping individuals (most of whom have not been charged with anything or found guilty of anything) of their human rights, and then torturing them into some sort of pathetic confession that doesn't amount to anything? Do you think this makes us credible in any way?

Michael's quote is right on the money.

[Racoon]

There you go again, Mike.
I don't completely disagree with you on this social issue, but C'mon.

Should we install 52 inch flat screen TV's to their prison cell wall?
That would at least increase our trade debt with China..
We need to keep those Chinese working!


You should realize, that being in Auzzie land, that you're in the same boat against the "terrorists"
Lets just all go to Bali and have a Blast!

[Racoon]

I'd really hate to think that those prisoners at Guantanamo are depressed.
Wouldn't that be awful?

Being stuck in some little prison cell.
Nothing to do but curse the US and read the Koran.

Thats how I spend my time... worrying about those SOB's who want to destroy freedom.
We ought to get them some more conveniences.

Hopefully, if everything plays out right, regular Americans will get sent to the same camps for opposing Bush Jr.'s war mongoring and fiscal policies!
for shits and giggles...

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by REASON

How can we claim to be the beacon of democracy on one hand, while stripping individuals (most of whom have not been charged with anything or found guilty of anything) of their human rights, and then torturing them into some sort of pathetic confession that doesn't amount to anything. Do you think this makes us credible in any way?

It saddens me to see a Country with such noble democratic ideals and traditions trash them all because of a fear of terrorism.
If you throw out the Rule of Law, habeas corpus, humane traetment of prisoners,Geneva convention, fair trials, rules of evidence, jurys etc what is the point?
How are you any different from the terrorists you are fighting?
Where is your moral superiority?
You become like those you are fighting; and that means the "War on Terror " has been won- and not by the USA.
It is just terribly sad to see such loss.
Democracy is very fragile and needs protection and champions.

Did you really read the article I posted?
"422 eminent members of the United Kingdom and European parliaments"
the article written by
Peter Vickery, QC, is Special Rapporteur, International Commission of Jurists, Victoria.

Have you listened to your own Civil liberties Union?
American Civil Liberties Union : Close Guantánamo

Have you listened to your own USA Guantanamo Bay defence lawyers. serving Army/Navy officers like Major Mori -who tell you how unjust the Guantanamo Bay system is?

Do you listen at all, to anything, but your own closed minds?

[InfiniteNow]

There is a fundamental dissonance now in the US psyche, and a deeply rooted polarization is continually being reinforced. Your own mind is the only one you feed. Provide it with the sustenance it needs to wake up and move forward.

How can anyone argue with a straight face in favor of the practices used in places such as this bay off cuba?

[Boerseun]

Mike, InfiniteNow, if I could, I would've repped your skinny asses. But seeing as I can't, see this as an IOU, to be redeemed at some time in the future.

Racoon, saying that there's nothing to worry about the conditions that terrorists and would-be terrorists are living under in Gitmo, and joking around flatscreen TV's, etc., have you considered the moral implications of holding those people, without them being charged with anything? Forget about the torture craziness, that speaks for itself and is indefensible - but holding them on flimsy premises, with no official charges? Whazzat? How do you defend that? Really?

The US is teetering on a precipice. It's very sad to see, really. The only people who can save the US from this moral chasm, is Americans themselves. Vote in a candidate who isn't sponsored by the military complex, and see how global warfare will decrease. The military complex might then sell cheap arms to little tinpot shithole countries and the 'States will then come to its defense - again. The arms manufacturers smiling all the way to the bank, regardless of the outcome. The US is the biggest armsdealer in the world. This includes the former USSR, China, the works. The US outsells those countries by miles, and then purchases billions' worth of arms from the very same manufacturers to keep the peace. For the arms dealers, its a win-win situation. And the moment they can successfully sponsor a president's campaign and get their 'inside man' in the Oval Office, Bob's your uncle.

The Free Market and Democracy is AWESOME! (Stuff the moral ambiguities, however).
Capitalism is AWESOME! (Provided you have capital, of course)

Americans, please do the World a favour and stop worrying about the rest of us. Save yourselves first.