Ww3- World War Three

[Buffy]

If you're following the news, Vladimir Putin had a "love-fest" with Amadinejad last week--at least that sure seems to be how it was covered by the press here.

Its a wonder though that even in a country as antagonistic to those two countries as Israel, that their own press seems to see stuff ours--and unfortunately our current administration--refuse to see:

Originally Posted by Yossi Melman, Haaretz, 10/22/2007

Russian President Vladimir Putin said last week in Tehran that he supports Iran's nuclear program. ... But Putin also refused to commit himself to a date when Russia will supply enriched uranium for the nuclear-powered electricity plant it is building in Iran's port city of Bushehr. Confusing? Definitely.

This confusion is exactly what allows Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's associates, who are experts at spin, to disseminate the claim - as they did over the weekend - that it was the prime minister who convinced Putin not to send Iran the first delivery of enriched uranium the reactor needs to be started....

The complexity characterizing Putin's foreign policy is causing the messages emerging from Moscow on Iran to sound ambiguous and confusing. Russia does not want its Shi'ite Muslim neighbor to have nuclear weapons, but it also sees Iran as an important market for the sale of arms and nuclear power plants for producing electricity. As far as Russia is concerned, Iran has been a target of diplomatic influence throughout history.

Above all, Russia is opposed to solving the crisis of the Iranian nuclear program by military means. It believes the Iranian leaders can still be convinced to postpone, at least for a while, the realization of their right to enrich uranium by themselves on a low level for civilian needs. That means Putin will not agree, at least not publicly, neither by silence nor by a wink, to an American military attack against Iran, not to mention an Israeli one.

Russia's message to Iran is: You have a right to enrich uranium for civilian needs, but you don't have to do it now. Russia supports you, but you are liable to lose our support if you are too stubborn.

For Russian diplomacy to be effective, it is accompanied by a double game and ambiguous statements. Russia joined the sanctions imposed on Iran by the UN Security Council, but for the time being opposes additional sanctions. All these steps were meant to preserve Russia's deterrent power against Iran.

Of course our right-wing-nuts are all atwitter these days about Putin's "hostility toward US interests." It would be nice if they could be a little bit more geo-political about it...kinda like their heroes, Nixon and Kissinger...

Henry's Madman Theory as executed by the Three Stooges,
Buffy

[LaurieAG]

Originally Posted by CraigD

If you consider Al Gore one of the “powers that be”, “painting those who pollute” as evil isn’t far from what I’d describe him as doing for the past half decade. Personally, I give Gore a big for his efforts, and think he should be given a prize .

Hi Craig,

Don't forget about Mikhail Gorbachef. He should get a big thumbs up (and a nobel prize) too for his considerable efforts since 1992. And he's also starting a new group to promote democracy in Russia.

Global Green

[Inter.spem.et.metum]

Does anyone believe in the Free Masons, I mean as a group that somehow controls the world?

My neighbor used to be a Free Mason. He said that he lost his soul and his faith after two decades with them. He CLAIMS that the Free Masons are literally building a pyramid of events, each one building up to one final event, some kind of an "End Game". He says use revelations as a road map on the decisions to make, while enjoying the prosperity the journey has to offer.

I don't want to say I believe in conspiracy theories, but I can't help but believe that these people are that blind to make such drastic and illogical decisions without some ulterior motive....

[Buffy]

Originally Posted by Inter.spem.et.metum

Does anyone believe in the Free Masons, I mean as a group that somehow controls the world?

This is getting more than a bit off topic, so you might want to start a new thread on this.

My grandfather was a Mason, and my Dad went to a few meetings when he was younger but never joined. To most all of the people I know, its an alternative to the Chamber of Commerce as an excuse for the boys to get together on Thursday nights an throw back a few. The conspiracy theories about them seem laughable given the people I *know* who belong...

...but as I said, open a new thread for this topic...

I would never belong to a club that would have someone like me as a member,
Buffy

[LaurieAG]

Originally Posted by CraigD

I believe that this is about the 2008 US elections.

Craig, I think this cartoon is from the NY Times.

[CraigD]

Originally Posted by Inter.spem.et.metum

Does anyone believe in the Free Masons, I mean as a group that somehow controls the world?

As an occult organization that controls the world, no. As a large, fairly well managed not for profit organization that provides a lot of beneficial services, particularly healthcare and pensions, yes. As a startlingly weird yet accessible semi-secret mystical society responsible for some eerily cool architecture, yes.

Originally Posted by Inter.spem.et.metum

My neighbor used to be a Free Mason. He said that he lost his soul and his faith after two decades with them. He CLAIMS that the Free Masons are literally building a pyramid of events, each one building up to one final event, some kind of an "End Game".

I intuit from ISEM’s emphasis on the word “claims” that he has a reasonable suspicion that his neighbor is not of entirely sound mind. At first glance, I suspect the neighbor is either enjoying the attention he receives from peoples’ reactions to his claims, or at least mildly delusional.

Masonic initiation rituals are weird, and rooted in a profoundly supernatural worldview. Some masons do use magical techniques to make decisions (as do some non-Masons, myself and my family included). I know several Masons who seem to enjoy this quality and suffer no ill mental health effects from their participation in it. Though Masonic rituals are secret – you’re not supposed to tell people, in some cases even fellow lodge members, the details of them – every Mason I know denies that they are involved in any capacity in a vast, world-controlling conspiracy. Freemasonry is, according to those I consider most knowledgeable (such as Israel Regarde) about personal growth and wellbeing, and being a positive influence on your neighbors and local community. Dogmatically, it’s essentially as esoteric magical society, and like most such societies, do not share the apocalyptic beliefs common among fundamentalist Christians, but rather a belief in a long and positive future of humankind.

However, I can imagine that a person with a predisposition for delusional thinking might have their mental health badly upset by Masonic initiation. In my experience, Masons make a concerted, good-faith effort not to invite such people into their lodges, but I imagine are not always successful.

It’s also been my experience that the people with the most dramatic and alarming accounts of Masonic schemes of world domination are rarely actually Masons, and often have very poor understanding with Masonry’s history, current organization, or esoteric literature – in short, that they are mentally dysfunctional kooks claiming knowledge and experience they don’t truly possess.

Originally Posted by Inter.spem.et.metum

I don't want to say I believe in conspiracy theories, but I can't help but believe that these people are that blind to make such drastic and illogical decisions without some ulterior motive....

It’s important, I think, to distinguish between secret societies. A remarkable number of US leaders and policy makers, including current US president G.W. Bush, are Bonesmen. Although Skull and Bones is “Masonic-inspired”, it’s not a Masonic lodge, nor affiliated with the Masons, but is essentially an single-lodge organization associated with Yale University. It’s known with some confidence that the 19th century founders of Skull and Bones claimed it to be a new lodge of the 18th Century Bavarian Illuminati, though proof of this claim is only circumstantial and conjectured. The Illuminati was not a Masonic lodge, either.

However, as Buffy suggests, discussion of secret societies and the conspiracy theories associated with them is best continued in a separate thread. I think I’ve gone on in that vein too long already – perhaps my walking distance proximity to the treasure trove of Masonic architecture that is Washington DC has so permeated me with such talk that I can’t help myself .