[Michaelangelica]

Just reading chapter 9 of Michael Moor's "Dude, Where is my Country"

I will summarise it for you here, but the whole book is well worth a read.
It is very iconoclastic.

• 57% of yanks befleive that abortiontion should be legal in all or most cases.
• 86% of Yanks agree with the Civil rights Movement.
• four out of five yanks say it is important for colleges to have racally diverse student bodies\Over 50% believe affirmative action is necessary
• 83% are in agreement with the goals of the environmental movement
• 85% are worried by lake and river pollution.
• 78% are worried about air pollution
• 60% want more energy conservation
• 94% want Federal safety regulations enacted on the manufacture and use of all handguns
• 73% want mandatory background checks on anyone buying a gun
• 59% of yanks in NY want ab an on handguns.
• 64% of Michigan NRA members favour mandatory reporting of handgun sales
• 59%of Michigan NRA members favoured regulations requiring that guns be stored unloaded
• 68% of Michigan NRA members want uniform safety standards for domestic and imported guns
  
• 8 in 10 Yanks believe that health insurance should be provided equally to everyone in the country.
  
• 62% support changing laws so that FEWER non-violent offenders are sent to prison
• 76% beleive that offendors would be better on the outside making restitution to their victims than by being locked away
• 74% prefer treatment and probation for non-violet drug users.
  
• 85% of yanks support equal opportunity in the workplace for gays and lesbians
• 58% thought labour unions were a good idea.
• 60% of yanks want a moratorium on executions

I found many of those figures surprising. (2003 figures)

What a liberal, liberated, free thinking country.

How come you don't vote for politicians to give you what you want?

We have got rid of our Little Bush (AKA "Bonsai") -Your turn now.

Do you have to vote Green and forget the democrats and republicans?

[modest]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

How come you don't vote for politicians to give you what you want?

I’m gonna go ahead and assume you’ve never been to the US. Here are some statistics I’m making up as I go:

80% of Americans don’t answer the phone for surveys
70% don’t answer the phone ever
60% lie about what they want (especially when answering survey questions)
50% have no idea what they want

and most important…

9 out of 10 think there is something wrong with what they want. If they want sex then they immediately start a petition to get pornography and other sex-related industry out of their community. If they want drugs then they elect public officials promising harsher prison sentences for drug-offenders. If they want food - well, that’s a bad example - we eat a lot!

But yeah, if we want something we immediately seem to assume it’s bad and move to extinguish it from existence. This is probably above all the reason most liberal voters elect Bushish candidates. It’s a puritan thing the scope of which can’t really be understood until you spend some time here.

[DougF]

We also believe,
that there will be a cure for cancer, AIDS and a whole host of other diseases.
We believe that if treat people the way we want to be treated, then maybe they will return the favor.
We believe that if we didn't have to spend all the monies on war, we could feed the world, cure hunger, fight disease.


We believe there is much to do and no time to do it.

[Zythryn]

Many ideals are easy to agree with. A lot depends upon marketing though as we yanks are a consumer driven society.
For example, if you ask 1000 people that live along a section of river "Are you concerned that tens of thousands of gallons of industrial waste are dumped into the river upstream from you" you will get a largely positive answer to 'are you concerned about river polution'
Then another survey taker asks "Would you want food to become scarce due to not allowing poor farmers along the river to use fertilizer, which helps plants thrive, on their crops" you will get a largely negative answer which you then summarize as 'are you concerned about riveer polution'

And, as Mike C has brought up numerous times, and one of the few areas I agree with him on, money buys elections in the USA. If you can spin enough issues as the above in 30 second comercials you sway enough of the voters to get elected. Allowing ONLY public money and the same amount of money for each canidate would go a long way to putting things back on track.

Also remember, Bush was only elected by a little under half of the people that actually voted (51.3%). So Bush was first elected by about a quarter of the population that was of voting age.

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by modest

But yeah, if we want something we immediately seem to assume it’s bad and move to extinguish it from existence. This is probably above all the reason most liberal voters elect Bushish candidates. It’s a puritan thing the scope of which can’t really be understood until you spend some time here.

I have been to the States and was treated with great kindness and generosity.
I don't know how accurate the statistics/surveys are but they point to a much more Liberal,thoughtful & compassionate society that the Red-Necked one that is often portrayed
The NRA surveys were especially surprising
Other stats include

• 56% of Michigan NRA members polled supported a law for a five day waiting period for ag un
• 55% Michigan NRA mebers were in favour of banning high capacity magazines that hold amunition
  and
• only 25% of Yanks own a gun.

We believe that if we didn't have to spend all the monies on war, we could feed the world, cure hunger, fight disease.

Another great comment Doug.
How many friends would the USA make if you spent the 3/4s of a Trillion dollars you spend year on defence eliminating disease and poverty?
You could do it, too, with that sort of money.

A slight digression on aid-
At the moment a lot of USA Aid sadly goes to propping up the current political and or corporate agenda (eg Israel)
It is often stated that "The USA gives half of all word aid."
This might be true overall, but on a per capita basis Australia gives twice as much as the USA.
You would expect US aid to be large overall as their Economy is the biggest in the world..
The top six counties per capita are

* Luxembourg:
* Denmark:
* Norway:
* Netherlands:
* Sweden:
* United Kingdom:

Also much US aid is tied to trade and political considerations
For example Aid to Israel accounts for over 12% of total US foreign Aid.
Many US aid programmes (about 90%) are "tied" to force recipient countries to buy USA services and products with the Aid the US gives.

While personal as well as Government Aid is also large., figures often include migrant workers remittances back "home"
For example Latin America alone received some $45 billion in remittances in 2004, almost 27% of the total private Aid

The amount given for the Indonesian Tsunami was generous but with government and private donations it amounted to about $2 per head.
Many less dramatic and newsworthy events receive little notice in the US media. These are the "orphaned disasters," they are not on TV and they are ignored and overlooked

[modest]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

I have been to the States and was treated with great kindness and generosity.
I don't know how accurate the statistics/surveys are but they point to a much more Liberal,thoughtful & compassionate society that the Red-Necked one that is often portrayed
The NRA surveys were especially surprising

I'm glad you said that Michaelangelica and I think you're very correct. The average "Red-Neck" American (of which I am philosophically opposed diametrically) is not so much like what people see in the media or on TV or film. In fact, when I lived in the south (for about a year), and now living in the midwest, I hear one thing above all others from foreign visitors. How nice everybody is. How kind and helpful and how unexpected that is. I don't know why this is so unexpected. Perhaps it is the perception generated by media - but it is amazing how often I've heard this from people from every continent.

"Southern hospitality" is very much alive and well in red-neck America. While people of the south often have very different political views and agendas than liberals like myself, this should not be taken to the assumption that they are uncompassionate or uncaring or the like. A quick example - When I lived in Louisiana (the redneck part) the person in the opposite apartment saw that my car was a piece of crap. He took the initiative to obtain a better-functioning car his parents weren't using and basically 'gave' it to me for a few months. This was no great friend of mine - just a neighbor with whom I honestly had little in common. This kind of sentiment (from everything I've experienced) is generally extended to anyone who lives in or is visiting the south.

Now - you're from Oz and from everything I've heard (never been down under myself) your countrymen and countrywoman are the liveliest and best spirited folk around. So, please, don't think I'm comparing countries here. Besides, France would make such a better comparison

I suppose someone will make the argument that the conservative agenda is un-compassionate in and of itself. And I would mostly agree with that. However, this should not be used as a broad brush to paint the character of the people who support such policies - IMHO, I think it's a bit more complicated than that.

-modest

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

In responce to those survey answers.....:h ihi::hih i:

Sorry..........no seriously, I'm sorry

A well armed populace = low crime rates

Unions suck (the life out their employers and the consumers that purchase their products and services)

nug control leads only to well armed criminals (I watched a shootout on a "cops" type reality show where the police had to locate more powerful firearms to bring about an end to the situation, the criminals had bigger nugs and body armour)

War sucks and paying for it sucks worse

Bush was not elected by the people

polls and surveys in a country where filling out an electoral ballot is too overly complicated to do properly are worthless

more Americans would GaS about the environment if it weren't soooooooooo
inconvenient to engage in a more environmentaly friendly way of life

(more to follow time fer sup)

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Lastly I'm soooooo sick and fkn tired of America being regarded as a wealthy nation.

Yes for the most part we're better of than some '"third-world" nations...

No the majority of americans are not so well off as portreyed by the media...

90% of the people I know and/or work with make ends meet and that's about it (myself included... I'm presently looking for job #2 in hopes of not losing my house...aparently working 60 hours a week isn't enough! Wifey puts in a 50 hour week too. Fuc#ing inflation!!)

[Michaelangelica]

You guys don't need anyone else to put you down do you?

celebrate -- the fact that one of the whitest states in the U.S. just voted for a black man to be our next president.

the most important news out of the caucus this evening was the whopping, room-busting turnout of Democrats. 239,000 people showed up to vote Democratic tonight (93% more than in '04, which was a record year), while only 115,000 showed up to vote Republican. And this is a red state!

MichaelMoore.com : "It's the War," Says Iowa to Hillary -- And a "Happy Blue Year" To All! ...from Michael Moore
What a V-e-r-y long, involved, mind-numbing process this seems to be.
No wonder USA people get tired, bored and switched off.
Please wake me up in 9 months time when the 30% of you who vote , do.

[DougF]

Michaelangelica
What a V-e-r-y long, involved, mind-numbing process this seems to be.
No wonder USA people get tired, bored and switched off.
Please wake me up in 9 months time when the 30% of you who vote , do.

You're right V-E-R-Y long and I do get tired of hearing it,
they started the campaigning earlier this time then last time and at this rate there won't be no break, can you imagine campaign commercials 365 24/7 for four years, they seem to have all the money they need.
Quick wake me up I believe I'm having a nightmare.