Keeping Pets Is Reprehensible

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by REASON

Of course, pet hoarding is reprehensible.
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I'm a bit surprised that the study you referenced above regarding the effect of an increased cat population on avian predators didn't seem to consider that the cats themselves might represent an increase in the supply of prey for those birds. Is that out of the realm of possibility? Will Red-tailed Hawks kill and eat kittens?

Not out of the realm I don't think, no. Wouldn't that make a great photo op though? The 'hang-in-there' kitten dangling from a raptors claws.

While the cat-kill data focuses on birds, the cats likely kill a lot of small critters as well, and while we don't like the mice eating our grain on the farm, mice (& other little kitty prey) serve a purpose in the wider wild circle of life. More food for thought anyway. That's what got us all into this after all, i.e. thinking it's innocuous to keep pets.

[REASON]

Originally Posted by Turtle

Not out of the realm I don't think, no. Wouldn't that make a great photo op though? The 'hang-in-there' kitten dangling from a raptors claws.

Good one!

Originally Posted by Turtle

While the cat-kill data focuses on birds, the cats likely kill a lot of small critters as well, and while we don't like the mice eating our grain on the farm, mice (& other little kitty prey) serve a purpose in the wider wild circle of life. More food for thought anyway. That's what got us all into this after all, i.e. thinking it's innocuous to keep pets.

Well sure, but if I'm a hawk and I'm hungry, and my normal food source is depleated, I'm thinking about eating those fuzzy creatures that have been eating my food.

Since the prey is larger, I would expect the size of hawks to increase over generations assuming feral cats were actually to become an important source of food for them.

But I definitely agree that laws should be implemented and enforced to control the pet population so that it does not have a detrimental effect on the natural environment.

Expecting responsible pet ownership is paramount to that effort, but enacting laws intended to eradicate pet ownership in it's entirety is an over exaggeration, and could potentially lead to an increase in uncontrolled black markets in animal trade, which is something else I find reprehensible.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by REASON

...Since the prey is larger, I would expect the size of hawks to increase over generations assuming feral cats were actually to become an important source of food for them.

They may instinctively know better than to try & take a cat/kitten. Here at least we also have eagles, but they tend to prefer fish around here. The free ranging cats must also be killing millions of snakes, frogs, & toads just to name a few species more.

Originally Posted by Reason

But I definitely agree that laws should be implemented and enforced to control the pet population so that it does not have a detrimental effect on the natural environment.

Expecting responsible pet ownership is paramount to that effort, but enacting laws intended to eradicate pet ownership in it's entirety is an over exaggeration, and could potentially lead to an increase in uncontrolled black markets in animal trade, which is something else I find reprehensible.

I haven't suggested any such law, and I think such abolitions are doomed to failure. I did suggest a law requiring pet owners to carry liability insurance, but received no comment. What would you think of such a law?

Laws are in effect, but people think their right to own pets supercedes these laws. Another dog attack here this week and the news people spent more time showing the owner display photos of her dogs that 'are very well behaved', than the man's injuries. Attacked in his own yard when the dogs pulled a fence board loose. Owner won't be charged though. Dog's will likely be euthanized; she'll get more dogs. The attack victim is scared to go outside now.

Anyway, I was going to post on the larger costs to society of people who keep pigeons for pets, but I'm typed out. I'll get to it soon enough. Turtle out.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Turtle

...
Anyway, I was going to post on the larger costs to society of people who keep pigeons for pets, but I'm typed out. I'll get to it soon enough. Turtle out.

This is a particularly damning example of a widespread ethos among pet owners that their rights supercede those of the public at large. Worthy of rebuke I'd say.

Originally Posted by Mary Vallis

...Mr. Newcomer listened to tales of pigeon lovers spraying hawks' eyes and beaks with a mixture of bleach and ammonia, creating a lethal gas. Another claimed he beat hawks to death with sticks. Another bragged about a five-gallon bucket full of talons he collected as trophies from his kills. Some boasted about killing 50 birds a year.

The pigeon aficionados did not know Mr. Newcomer was a special agent with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service who had infiltrated their clubs to gather evidence for a large-scale investigation known as Operation High Roller. For a year and a half, he posed as a curious arrival on the roller pigeon scene and tracked the hawk killers with undercover surveillance. He scooped dead hawks out of their garbage at night. ...

Pigeon aficionados by day, hawk killers by night

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

O.k. then....that seriously P!$$3$ me OFF!!!!!!

I am a firm believer that people like that should recieve the same treatment that they deal out! Birds of prey are awsome! I always feel inspired when I see them. Red Tailed Hawks are my favorite.

This is a particularly damning example of a widespread ethos among pet owners that their rights supercede those of the public at large. Worthy of rebuke I'd say.

I'd say much more than rebuke is in order for anyone that would intentionally harm an animal for reasons other than self defence, defence of family or food.

[freeztar]

In regards to cats being targeted by raptors, I found this interesting link:

Very Strong Birds