War in Iraq

[IrishEyes]

Qfwfq-
So C1ay shows that the US gets invloved in more than just oil battles, but still, there must be some hidden agenda, right?
If the US got invloved more heavily in any of the current African crises, what would the general reaction be?
Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.

[Qfwfq]

So everybody should stay within their own house's walls? And nobody has the right to barge into other's houses, regardless of the reason?

I don't see how my words should quite fully imply:

Originally Posted by IrishEyes

So each country should stay within its own borders? And no country has the right to interfere with another country, regardless of the reason?

Or the opposite. My views are neither one or the other, I'm not a nationalist.

Originally Posted by IrishEyes

Or is there a good reason?

Oil, coal and similar reasons are not what I consider good ones, but I'm not the one that's gonna stand in front of the cannons with a dove and a palm branch.

Anyway, all this would be yet another thread, about international politics and justice etc...

[Qfwfq]

The agenda is not always hidden at all, even when it isn't oil. There is planetary strategy in most cases.

Originally Posted by IrishEyes

Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.

I'm not exhorting the US to go marching into Darfur, Côtè d'Ivoire and so on. It would be a different thing if all or most UN members would consistently and coherently support such things when necessary, and none vetoe it, instead of accusing the UN of not having done what it was founded for, and making this an excuse to go marching in when they have national interests.

Of course, there is above all the matter of method. I would never tell the US to bomb towns and cities.

[Biochemist]

Originally Posted by Qfwfq

..Just say that grabbing oil is a good enough excuse...

I am amazed that this is so often repeated. Even smart folks (like you, Q) repeat this mantra.

Could someone explain to me how the US gets oil by being in Iraq? We would have received more oil if we had not gone to Iraq, since the world oil market is fungible, and Saddam would have pumped more oil than is currently being exported.

How does the US get oil by being in Iraq?

[Buffy]

Originally Posted by Biochemist

Could someone explain to me how the US gets oil by being in Iraq? We would have received more oil if we had not gone to Iraq, since the world oil market is fungible, and Saddam would have pumped more oil than is currently being exported.

That's the irony. The oil-folks (e.g. Cheney) want this *not* so that *America* gets more oil, but so that American *oil companies* get more control of what's there. Their thinking was based on the notion that if Saddam was still in power, all the contracts would go to the Russians and the French and they wanted all the action. Of course this was sheer stupidity from a geopolitical standpoint, and once a free government is in place in Iraq, they're probably going to find they get a better deal with the French and the Russians and the net-net will be the same.

I'll agree that the "no blood for oil" crowd is a little looney on this topic, but the fact that the oil lobbists were so active in trying to get votes on the war resolutions shows that they had an interest. It was not the reason, but there were people using this idiotic line of logic, some in high places in government. I find this scary not for the conspiracy but for the level of stupidity among people making critical decisions for us....

Cheers,
Buffy

[infamous]

Originally Posted by Buffy

That's the irony. The oil-folks (e.g. Cheney) want this *not* so that *America* gets more oil, but so that American *oil companies* get more control of what's there.

You make an excellent point here Buffy and I must say, I tend to agree with you.

Originally Posted by Buffy

I'll agree that the "no blood for oil" crowd is a little looney on this topic, but the fact that the oil lobbists were so active in trying to get votes on the war resolutions shows that they had an interest.

Once again, I must agree.

Originally Posted by Buffy

It was not the reason, but there were people using this idiotic line of logic, some in high places in government. I find this scary not for the conspiracy but for the level of stupidity among people making critical decisions for us....

There certainly appears to be some stupidity going on here however, I'm more inclined to believe it was a scratch my back, I'll scracth yours mentality. Maybe this thread could have read, Corporation sponsored Crime.

Cheers,
Buffy[/quote]

[Buffy]

Originally Posted by infamous

There certainly appears to be some stupidity going on here however, I'm more inclined to believe it was a scratch my back, I'll scracth yours mentality. Maybe this thread could have read, Corporation sponsored Crime.

Oh I agree, but the fact that its in the process of backfiring horribly on them--since yes, the French and Russians will (in fact, are) get back in very quickly, which they SHOULD have forseen--makes it stupidity mixed with dangerous hubris too....

Cheers,
Buffy

[IrishEyes]

Originally Posted by Infamous

Maybe this thread could have read, Corporation sponsored Crime.

Nah, this one is about the war in Iraq. It was started because the other one, SSC, had so much of the Iraq stuff in it that it was getting bogged down.
However, this thread seems to be moving along quite nicely,
and I am liking the way it is going.
(oops, sorry, that's for another thread. )

[infamous]

Originally Posted by IrishEyes

Nah, this one is about the war in Iraq. )

Very true Irish, but you know everyone has their own personal reasons for why they either approve or disapprove of the war in Iraq. Personally, I believe we needed to be involved militarily for several reasons, non of which may have been the actual reasons our government got involved. In any event, we may never know the exact reasons our government had in mind, what makes the difference for me at least, is; I think it needed to be done.

[Qfwfq]

Originally Posted by Biochemist

I am amazed that this is so often repeated. Even smart folks (like you, Q) repeat this mantra.

Note Bio that I was replying to Infamous. I'm fully aware that the whole thing goes far beyond just the oil that's on Iraqi soil. It even goes a bit beyond oil.

Originally Posted by Biochemist

since the world oil market is fungible

You recited this mantra before and I replied at the time.