Family Values: Divorce

[MagnetMan]

I am researching Family Values for a documentary film. I will be posting several threads that explore this subject. It would be helpful if you contribute to this research with your views on divorce. If you could preface your view with a Y or an N to signify that you have personal experience, that would be even more helpful.

Family values under-pin our cultural values. Over the past three generations or so, divorce has become pandemic. Tens of millions of children have been caught up in the middle of parental disputes. They have seen honored vows broken, even trashed.

There is no evolutionary precedent for this massive inroad into our traditional social structure. Thus we have no way of evaluating the long term effect divorce will have on the collective psyche.

The question is: Are we heading towards a more dynamic view of ourselves as individuals and as a culture - via the trauma divorce creates in the family home - or are we on a downhill road to gradual cultural decay?

[InfiniteNow]

Could just be that with the population increase, we have better choices available to us, so we leave a less than ideal choice/person for someone else who seems to fit our mold better.

Like if you live in a small town with one tiny store, of course you're going to buy the rice they sell and the one brand of canned goods. However, you move to a big city with lots of options, you'll pick the food that fits you best.

Same with marriage. You made a lot of assumptions in your post. Who says it has anything to do with society or culture?

[Rebiu]

Originally Posted by MagnetMan

If you could preface your view with a Y or an N to signify that you have personal experience, that would be even more helpful.

I have no personal experience with divorce.

Originally Posted by MagnetMan

Family values under-pin our cultural values. Over the past three generations or so, divorce has become pandemic. Tens of millions of children have been caught up in the middle of parental disputes. They have seen honored vows broken, even trashed.

You are assuming that divorce is the less desirable alternative. I suggest that in many cases divorce is better for the children than the continued modeling of a dysfunctional relationship held together by cultural sanction.

Originally Posted by MagnetMan

There is no evolutionary precedent for this massive inroad into our traditional social structure. Thus we have no way of evaluating the long term effect divorce will have on the collective psyche.

I think is has been very common historically for couple to separate even if they were not availed of the relief and closure of divorce and therefore the idea that society is radically changing is overestimated.

Originally Posted by MagnetMan

The question is: Are we heading towards a more dynamic view of ourselves as individuals and as a culture - via the trauma divorce creates in the family home - or are we on a downhill road to gradual cultural decay?

The force that push this culture towards a more dynamic outlook are greater freedom is increasing access to information and experience. This is facilitated by technology more than culture. If personal access to ideas is curtailed then cultural decay ensues. I do not think divorce has a significant impact because it is the result of other factors not the cause.

[Tormod]

Originally Posted by MagnetMan

There is no evolutionary precedent for this massive inroad into our traditional social structure. Thus we have no way of evaluating the long term effect divorce will have on the collective psyche.

I fail to see where evolution comes into this. Where would we look for evidence of this?

What sort of marriage are you talking about, and what kind of statistic are you using? Statistics for the US, Asia, Australia, Africa?

On the same note, what will be the long-term effect of all the unhappy marriages that must have existed prior to the massive divorce watershed you are talking about?

Edit: Forgot to add, I am a child of divorced parents (since the age of 3), but am happily married myself.

[Rebiu]

I forgot to mention that my parents separated when I was ten. I lived with an Aunt and several cousins for a few years and then with my mother until I was 16 and then I live with my stepsister until I got my own place on my 18th birthday. This place was a tiny duplex rented on the other side by none other than dear old mom.

I am happily married with 3 kids and have worked extremely hard to make this marriage work.

[MagnetMan]

Originally Posted by Rebiu

If personal access to ideas is curtailed then cultural decay ensues. I do not think divorce has a significant impact because it is the result of other factors not the cause.

Culture is founded on sound family values. If those continue to deteriorate then ideas will gradually no longer ensue. If we do not protect the child by making adult scarifices that uphold the vows we made when we married, and make the best of it, then where does it end?

[Rebiu]

Originally Posted by MagnetMan

Culture is founded on sound family values. If those continue to deteriorate then ideas will gradually no longer ensue. If we do not protect the child by making adult scarifices that uphold the vows we made when we married, and make the best of it, then where does it end?

It is foolish to think family requires sacrifice. Families require that choices be made. These choices offer benefits to the individual as well as the family and therefore they are not sacrifices.

Please enumerate the sound family values that culture is found on. It is my opinion that there are no such thing as family values and any genuine values apply to individuals in our out of families.

[MagnetMan]

Originally Posted by Rebiu

It is foolish to think family requires sacrifice. Families require that choices be made. These choices offer benefits to the individual as well as the family and therefore they are not sacrifices.

The sacrifces I am refering to ehre concern parenting. If, for instance, a mother prefers her career over rearing her children , then she should make the sacrfice and do the right thing - or run the risk of having hers and the kid's life destroyed by deliquincy.

Please enumerate the sound family values that culture is found on. It is my opinion that there are no such thing as family values and any genuine values apply to individuals in our out of families.

I have listed family values on another thread But here they are again.
Sharing and caring ethic, chore-based work ethic; courage ethic. conscientious craftsmanship ethic, creative vision ethic, intellectual ethic. All of these are innate within the human psyche from birth and need to be encouraged to express themselves in everyday behavior inside the home as the child grows to maturity, via careful parental guidance. These values support the Confucian principle of filial piety (parental veneration). When these ethics are properly evoked we have a valuable family member and a creatively productive, self-policed, citizen. If family values decline, so does the culture.

[Racoon]

Originally Posted by MagnetMan

If, for instance, a mother prefers her career over rearing her children , then she should make the sacrfice and do the right thing - or run the risk of having hers and the kid's life destroyed by deliquincy.

True enough MM, and with today's Economics, of paying the Mortgage and bills,it almost always necessitates a second income.
Mothers should well consider this and plan far ahead when thinking of kids.
Unfortunately, most just 'Kinda' happen'...
Thats why there is Child Support

We had a baby-sitter after school usually, and we(my sibblings and I) were left to fend for ourselves much of the time.
Fortunately we all turned out OK, but I definitely see the Conundrum here.
In Sociology, we had to budget a single mother of 3 who worked 40-50 hours a week as a cashier at a grocery store!
Not an easy task.

Best advice: DON'T GET KNOCKED UP!
and get your Education in order first!!

of course people don't usually think that far ahead of their Hormones...
You bring up some solid ideas Magnet Man, and I like the style you bring...
Education of Teenagers, especially women, about sex and birth control should ALWAYS be implemented in high-school! (because many times it's more important than Algebra)

No kids and No felonies,
Racoon

[MagnetMan]

Originally Posted by Racoon

True enough MM, and with today's Economics, of paying the Mortgage and bills,it almost always necessitates a second income.
Mothers should well consider this and plan far ahead when thinking of kids.
Unfortunately, most just 'Kinda' happen'...
Thats why there is Child Support

We have to deal the best we can with the cards already dealt. I apllaud all single mothers and fathers who strugg;le with this modern dysfunction. I am concerned with the long-term effect on our culture if we do not ask ourselves if we have a future problem on our hands or not. If there is a comnsensus that we do have a problem, then what shall we do about it before it gets worse? The fact that every child needs both parents for truly healthy development cannot be denied

As you say, education is the key. There are two marital issues that we need to recognize here. Our specie is naturally polygamous. Modern males get married far too young. Females are ready for motherhood at puberty. Males generally only reach self-mastery at 42 (too many never do) That is when he wants to pass on his learning to his own progeny and is naturally ready for husbandry and fatherhood. Divorce can be avoided if a young woman seeks out a mature male to father her children. If she opts for a younger male, she has to be prepared to deal with (mother) and tolerate the trepasses of her immature mate, as he struggles to develop self-mastery.