Virginity?

[alexander]

What about using virginity as an excuse? Seriously saying that you are a virgin is like telling me you have found the equation that unites all the forces together and explains them all in terms of one another...
a) i don't believe you
b) i still wanna check out the proof
and
c) it does not matter

Virginity is just a weird concept of a word to me... we dont have a word for a person who has never flown a plane or fired a weapon, we dont have a name for a person who has never eaten raw fish, who has never cooked, or swam... So it's just a concept invented by people throughout history, as it has been said here, that made sure that your wife would have your baby, especially in civilizations where marriage was not preceeded by dating but was more contractual, though certainly not the case with Russia in the 1900ds, that was more of an honesty system, deriving from the old tradition. The role of virginity was down played in many historic societies, like ancient Egypt, Greece and the early Roman empire, i mean the pharaoh used to take his boat down the Nile each year for a festival, and the determination of how plentiful the season will be came from the amount of the pharaoh's ejaculation (into the river). That said there have been plenty of societies in which virginity played a rather large role, like Mongolian empire, Russia (through the communism (advanced socialism) era actually), and early US, and many Arab countries.

[freeztar]

Has anyone ever met or spoke to a Consecrated virgin? I'm curious as to how such people come to the decision and how difficult, if at all, it is for them to maintain it. I would guess that it would be somewhat common for people to later change their mind.

[pamela]

sure Freeztar many of them I was raised catholic and would often visit the monasteries. The women that were cloistered were very quiet, yet friendly. The general consensus among them was that they had received a "calling". Loosely translated, they believed in their heart that god had called them to be his bride. Apparently though, its not for all of them .I had a teacher in grade school that had broken her vows and opted for the mainstream life, including all the fringe benefits. Her demeanor was very different from those that were cloistered.She was a tough one and had a twinkle in her eye when she taught us about the evolution of the peppered moth.

[Mercedes Benzene]

Religion is the most likely source of the concept of virginity.
I spoke for a couple hours today with an Iranian woman. Besides getting her opinions on the current conflict, she spoke a lot about her life in pre-revolution Iran. One of the things she talked about was how men will generally not marry a woman unless she is a virgin. The man will have her examined by a gynecologist to ensure that she was still "pure." If the bride-to-be's family was fairly well-off/influential, they could choose a gynecologist themselves, and often they would pay the gynecologist thousands of dollars to say that she was still a virgin. All of this just because it allows the man to express his "dominance."

[Moontanman]

Personally I think virginity can be cured with the right amount of effort! So what is the difference between consecrated virgins and vestal virgins?

[pamela]

basically the religion is the difference. A vestal virgin is a priest who serves the god Vesta.After her service she is free to marry. In Catholicism, the virgin has a marriage ceremony, in which her husband is implied to be god, and is usually till death do they meet

[CraigD]

Originally Posted by dannieyankee

I understand it [virginity] was popularised by religion. What keeps it alive today?

As with any question, it’s important to start with a clear sense of what, precisely the “it” that’s being discussed actually is. In the case of words and concepts that’ve undergone centuries of changes in meaning and language, as is the case with “virgin” and “virginity”, this is even more complicated than for typical mathematical or scientific concepts.

An comprehensive history of the concept of virgins and virginity, or even a very trustworthy summary, would be a substantial undertaking of historical and sociological scholarship, but a few key outline points can be thrown up fairly easily.

The etymology of the words offers a good starting place. “Virgin” comes fairly clearly and obviously from an ancient Greek word “virgo”, meaning simply “young woman”, that is, a female older than a “child” but not yet fully mature. It conveys no connotation of sexual abstinence or naivety – those depend on the cultural norms and expectations of females of that age, which, for some females of some socioeconomic statuses in some ancient and modern cultures, may include very sexually experienced roles, such as child prostitutes. In later European civilization, the Germanic language origin “maiden” becomes somewhat synonymous with “virgin”, carrying a connotation of marital status. In this sense, any unmarried female may be considered a virgin. The concept of maidenhood and marriage is fluid across times and cultures. In some instances, maiden may mean a woman who has not had publicly acknowledged, licit vaginal intercourse with a man, or it may mean a woman who has never been pregnant or given birth.

The earliest concepts of virginity appear to apply only to females, but at least 2000 years ago, it was being applied to males. Ca. 95 AD, John of Patmos (AKA John the Divine) wrote in Greek in the Book of Revelation a reference to males “These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins.” At some point in world history, the concept became very generalized, the adjective “virgin” being applied to such things as olive oil (eg: “extra-virgin olive oil”) and metal obtained entirely from ore.

In some subcultures, such as present day nuns and monks, virginity is commonly understood to be synonymous with physical and mental chastity (refraining from sexual acts or thoughts). Present-day non-Catholic Christians, especially in the US, have related concepts called such things as “secondary virginity”, “revirginization”, “born-again”, and “renewed virginity”.

Although the concept of female virginity has in many times and cultures, including present day, been used to support the idea of women as the property (chattel) of men, it has for thousands of years in some cultures to explicitly exempt women from chattel status. From about 750 to 394 BC, a small number of high-status Roman priestess of the goddess Vesta, the Vestal Virgins, were exempt for a period of 30 years from contemporary Roman law that made women chattel of their fathers, then their husbands. In medieval Europe and Asia, Christian nuns owned property, locally governed themselves, and were not chattel to fathers or husbands, even when living within communities where this was the law.

The comments above just scratch the surface of the complicated sociological and historical concept of virginity, but hopefully they serve to disabuse readers of the belief that virginity is no more than a tool of oppression and/or moral condemnation.

Another interesting line of inquiry into the concept of virginity is to consider its biology, anatomy and physiology, especially various common misconceptions, such as the belief that its possible to reliably determine if adult woman has ever been vaginally penetrated by examining her hymen, or that one can estimate how many times or how often a woman has had vaginal intercourse by physical examination. It’s also interesting (and ribaldly funny, IMHO) to consider what sort of sexual activities various cultures and sub-cultures consider virginity-ending or not: oral-genital sex, anal sex, sex between women, sex between men, etc. I’ve know some intensely sexual and sexually active people who considered themselves, and were considered by many of their peers, to be virgins!

[dannieyankee]

Personally, I consider someone to be a virgin if they have had no sexual activity. You have 'lost it', to me, if you have had any sexual activity. If you gave or have been given oral sex, that's it. If you've been in any sort of sexual scenario, including penetrating or being penetrated by any part of another person, you have had sex.

More specifically, I mean, in a sexual situation. I don't mean to imply that you have lost your virginity if you have ever seen a gynaecologist.

[HydrogenBond]

A value of a virgin is like a new car. The new car is a little stiff at first, and has to be pampered and driven slowly, until it is broken in. But if you treat it right, it will get up to speed in a short time and last for many years. Most people prefer to buy their cars new, if they have that option, rather than buy a car with high mileage. The high mileage car will be good to go right away. But will often need to be trade in earlier. The exception is the classic car, which is an engineering marvel, getting better with age. But those are expensive to maintain.

Here is a more human way to look at the value of a virgin. For guys to get into women's pants, many men will say and do whatever it takes, with the lowest form of male going the farthest. Even the nice guy can make promises he will not be able to to keep relative to the bartering. From the point of view of women, this means pain and disappointment. From a psychological point of view, the virgin doesn't know this same pain, since she is sheltered from this hard reality. This hard driving can create hidden damage in used cars.
A study should be done to see if virgins or moderate to high mileage women nag more, to see if there is more hidden damage in used cars, or more factory defects in new cars.

The virgin is like a good wine getting better with time if it is treated right. The high mileage car starts out running great, but gets temperamental quickly, as the wear and tear becomes obvious. Don't get me wrong, a high mileage woman is a good practice car for young drivers, since the young driven often crashes. When their skills are mature, new is the way to go. This is why historically, older males would marry younger virgins. They drive the used cars to gain skills, until they are ready to buy a new car.

[dannieyankee]

Very interesting.

However, everything that everyone has said in favour or explanation of the reverence of virginity has been to satisfy a male-oriented culture. What this basically is suggesting is that for a world to be honestly equal, the virginity thing has to disappear, because it has been a method of men gaining control of women for their own enrichment.

Correct me if you have come to a different conclusion