Virginity?

[dannieyankee]

I understand it was popularised by religion. What keeps it alive today?

[InfiniteNow]

My conjecture is that it's the concept of spoilage. Much like we don't like to eat off the plate of a stranger, or wear someone else's dirty underwear, we don't like to follow into the vaginal canal where another man has already deposited his seed (and potentially some STDs too).

The female is the vehicle to pass on my genes to the next generation. I don't want that vehicle being driven by some other guy ALSO trying to pass on his genes to the next generation.

A virgin essentially guarantees that it's mine, and is not being soiled by some dirty smelly diseased other guy. Also, I believe the "suction" effect will be greater.


I apologize for the extremeness and short hand used. It's not my intent to be offensive with this, just clear and straight forward... sincerely. I think that the basic point is one of cleanliness/disease, unwillingness to share, and tightness.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by InfiniteNow

My conjecture is that it's the concept of spoilage. Much like we don't like to eat off the plate of a stranger, or wear someone else's dirty underwear, we don't like to follow into the vaginal canal where another man has already deposited his seed (and potentially some STDs too).

The female is the vehicle to pass on my genes to the next generation. I don't want that vehicle being driven by some other guy ALSO trying to pass on his genes to the next generation.

A virgin essentially guarantees that it's mine, and is not being soiled by some dirty smelly diseased other guy. Also, I believe the "suction" effect will be greater.


I apologize for the extremeness and short hand used. It's not my intent to be offensive with this, just clear and straight forward... sincerely. I think that the basic point is one of cleanliness/disease, unwillingness to share, and tightness.

There is some scientific evidence to challenge your view.

http://www.epjournal.net/filestore/ep021223.pdf

Originally Posted by Gordon G. Gallup

Semen Displacement as a Sperm Competition Strategy in Humans
Abstract: We examine some of the implications of the possibility that the human penis may have evolved to compete with sperm from other males by displacing rival semen from the cervical end of the vagina prior to ejaculation. The semen displacement hypothesis integrates considerable information about genital morphology and human reproductive behavior, and can be used to generate a number of interesting predictions.

Originally Posted by DameYanky

I understand it was popularised by religion. What keeps it alive today?

Virginity is not universally an issue/meme, through either time or place, and while religion may have a part in some circumstances, that does not preclude secular concerns from having a say in the matter. Given the slow rate of human gestation, perhaps the idea of virginity originally came from observing procreation in livestock. Today it may serve an individual as positive feedback regarding self-control, and regardless of what the instigator is for adopting the meme.
Not to ignore the 800 pound religions in the room; well, you know religions and their propensities to shame folk. i hear Baptists are allowed to dance these days, so maybe there is hope yet that the virginity meme in humans will die out.

[InfiniteNow]

Originally Posted by Turtle

There is some scientific evidence to challenge your view.

http://www.epjournal.net/filestore/ep021223.pdf

That doesn't challenge my view at all. In fact, it only reinforces it. You bring up the concept of male sperm competition, and how our physiology/morphology is in large part a result of this competition. Well... it logically follows that... if we are competing with other males to deposit our sperm inside of a female... the single best way to "beat them" is to ensure they never even get to play the game at all. ... or, more specific to this thread topic... that no other male has ever made a deposit inside of your chosen "vehicle" ... the aforementioned virgin female.

[dannieyankee]

I have always regarded virginity as a useless waste of time - when you get a really cool instrument, do you wait for the right time to play it? Or do you use it as soon as possible, possibly even 'testing' it out at the store before you buy it?

When you get a new computer, do you wait for the right time?

When you buy a car, do you wait for the right time?

When you learn how to read, do you wait for the right time?

When you are learning to walk, do you wait for the right time?

I believe the entire idea of a woman keeping her virginity is based completely on a male-chauvinistic idea that men should be the first, that they have priority to a woman and thus owns them - to which is an unfair advantage, as women are not supposed to complain when their man is not a virgin, thus making them susceptible to disease that men so hate - and I have heard of a more perverse version, in which men have that desire to defile a woman's purity.

I honestly believe the entire purity scheme is - mind my french - bullshit. Again, purity comes from religion.

Poke some holes in my argument to keep it going, please

[InfiniteNow]

Not to mention that virgins are really bad in bed due merely to the fact that they have no practice. You don't pick up a golf club and immediately hit like Tiger Woods. It takes practice.

Give me a dirty stripper any day... It's tons more fun since she's had practice and knows what the hell she's doing.


I was just putting forth a conjecture in response to the question in your OP.

[dannieyankee]

I thoroughly agree with you in that last statement - virgins kind of just sit there.

Strippers are sexy, and they actually have a clue at what they're doing. The only problem is that you know they just want your money, though I believe this is less of a problem for men, who are apparently less emotion-related in bed. Alas, another reason why I play for the opposite team.

I have heard the argument that men prefer virgins in bed because they have no clue whether or not their 'man' is bad.

[InfiniteNow]

Originally Posted by dannieyankee

I have heard the argument that men prefer virgins in bed because they have no clue whether or not their 'man' is bad.

Well, I've never had any complaints (except, perhaps, when I was a virgin ).

I think that perhaps... with guys... it may also have something to do with their ego... the desire to be like a god... To "set the stage," to "blaze the trail." That same desire to scale Mt. Everest or to be the first to explore some new land... To be a part of history... a legend. After all, everyone always remembers their first. Maybe it's about wanting that "power," wanting to always be remebered, and have every future encounter that girl has be compared against you.

I dunno. This one surely seems less tangible than my earlier thread contribution, but hey... maybe... why not?

[Boerseun]

I think all the religious mumbo-jumbo we hear about the virtues of virginity stems from our innate desire for exclusive possession of the female, as stated in the above posts.

Whether this is for ensuring your lineage, or an unconscious attempt at rising in the hierarchy (as in hymadrias baboons, where the size of your exclusive harem determines your position in the hierarchy), is open to debate. I think it might very well be a mix of the two.

What is rather surprising, though, is the willingness amongst human males to bring up, care, and even love stepchildren. This probably stems from group selection, too - and in the face of predators on the open savannah, it might just be to your benefit to have more members of your species around, regardless of them not being necessarily your direct descendants.

[enorbet2]

While I am confident that there have been many reasons from the ridiculous to the sublime in the past for valuing virginity in females (hmmm I wonder if ancient Greeks and Roman males cared if their "boy toys" were virgins?) the entire concept certainly received a huge boost in western civilization due to the concept of Primogeniture. Females were inspected before the wedding night to insure that any possibility of a first-born son was actually that of the husband's lineage and not some recent lover's. Technology being what it was or wasn't, the hymen was the only reliable indicator.

Considering the width of cars is due to long-lasting Roman roads which were due to Roman chariot design, it is not surprising to me that something rooted in ancient medicine (disease), sociology, status and property as well as religion has carried on blindly. Personally, I have never had an interest in virgins. Enthusiasm does not make up for experience and enthusiasm can be created and recreated, while experience has no substitute.